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Thread: Study confirms that UBI does not work

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    Study confirms that UBI does not work

    Study confirms that UBI does not work

    We have talked about Universal Basic Income a lot on the forum, typically when a country or smaller governing level implemented a test study of UBI. It seems like nobody can get to the universal part. It is simply too expensive. Although I wonder if they fail to consider replacing all social welfare programs with UBI rather than tacking UBI onto existing programs.

    A study published this week sheds doubt on ambitious claims made for universal basic income (UBI), the scheme that would give everyone regular, unconditional cash payments that are enough to live on. Its advocates claim it would help to reduce poverty, narrow inequalities and tackle the effects of automation on jobs and income. Research conducted for Public Services International, a global trade union federation, reviewed for the first time 16 practical projects that have tested different ways of distributing regular cash payments to individuals across a range of poor, middle-income and rich countries, as well as copious literature on the topic.

    It could find no evidence to suggest that such a scheme could be sustained for all individuals in any country in the short, medium or longer term – or that this approach could achieve lasting improvements in wellbeing or equality. The research confirms the importance of generous, non-stigmatising income support, but everything turns on how much money is paid, under what conditions and with what consequences for the welfare system as a whole.
    From Kenya and southern India to Alaska and Finland, cash payment schemes have been claimed to show that UBI “works”. In fact, what’s been tested in practice is almost infinitely varied, with cash paid at different levels and intervals, usually well below the poverty line and mainly to individuals selected because they are severely disadvantaged, with funds provided by charities, corporations and development agencies more often than by governments.


    Experiments in India and Kenya have been funded, respectively, by Unicef and Give Directly, a US charity supported by Google. They give money to people on very low incomes in selected villages for fixed periods of time. Giving small amounts of cash to people who have next to nothing is bound to make a difference – and indeed, these schemes have helped to improve recipients’ health and livelihoods. But nothing is revealed about their longer-term viability, or how they could be scaled up to serve whole populations. And there is a democratic deficit: people who get their basic income from charities or aid agencies have no control over how payments are made, to whom, at what level or over what period of time.
    Read the rest at the link.
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    Chris (05-10-2019)

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    Right, the review of UBI experiments by "Public Services International, a global trade union federation" seems to say the experiments tend not to get the universality right or don't replace welfare and fail. They do find experiments in Kenya and southern India successful short-term but long-term effects still unknown.

    I've been reading about UBI for some time and never read the goal is "improvements in wellbeing or equality." The goal is to get those not contributing to society but living off it parasitically to go out and find work. Welfare tends to be a disincentive because as soon as you earn a certain amount the welfare stops. But with UBI it would continue and earning more becomes an incentive.
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    Peter1469 (05-10-2019)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Right, the review of UBI experiments by "Public Services International, a global trade union federation" seems to say the experiments tend not to get the universality right or don't replace welfare and fail. They do find experiments in Kenya and southern India successful short-term but long-term effects still unknown.

    I've been reading about UBI for some time and never read the goal is "improvements in wellbeing or equality." The goal is to get those not contributing to society but living off it parasitically to go out and find work. Welfare tends to be a disincentive because as soon as you earn a certain amount the welfare stops. But with UBI it would continue and earning more becomes an incentive.
    I see it that way too.
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    Too many points to post, no time to post them.

    Shortest version: Those that squander what they have already, won't change their habits under UBI. Those that don't squander, don't really need UBI. Wealth redistribution by any other name....

    Back to the Friday meetings....
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison

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    Quote Originally Posted by Collateral Damage View Post
    Too many points to post, no time to post them.

    Shortest version: Those that squander what they have already, won't change their habits under UBI. Those that don't squander, don't really need UBI. Wealth redistribution by any other name....

    Back to the Friday meetings....
    I suppose the poor are better micromanaged through multiple welfare programs. They can't be trusted to be responsible....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    I suppose the poor are better micromanaged through multiple welfare programs. They can't be trusted to be responsible....
    I'm not sure I would agree with that statement, as it is. Not all poor are irresponsible, but those that are irresponsible, are quite often poor....

    At least with the individual programs such as SNAP, the benefit is controlled to an extent. They are not being 'handed' money that is being spent for whatever (cigs, beer, drugs, new cell phone etc).
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison

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