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Thread: The birth rate in every country past, present and future

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    I believe over population is a drain on our resources. Well I guess I should just scrap that argument, as it is soon going to be irrelevant. When our labor is replaced by automation they might not need so many of us anymore and who knows what will happen. I don't think they will pay to keep masses and masses of people who have no purpose except to live. But I suppose that is a whole different conversation.

    Well I will still explain, it is like Christmas, or what I like to call economy day. It always has to be bigger than last year. We always have to compare it. It is the same with our population. We have more people now than ever, even if we don't populate enough to keep that up even if drops a bit, it is still more than ever. I am not sure that is a problem, it is actually better for the earth.

    A link I read said our population is projected to be 11.2 billion by 2100 and now what are we at like 8 billion? That is a clear increase in population. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth

    But I am no expert in this department though. Those are just my thoughts on this.
    A falling population cannot afford the social welfare programs in the developed nations. So if we really want lower populations we need to start cutting these programs over time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    I believe over population is a drain on our resources. Well I guess I should just scrap that argument, as it is soon going to be irrelevant. When our labor is replaced by automation they might not need so many of us anymore and who knows what will happen. I don't think they will pay to keep masses and masses of people who have no purpose except to live. But I suppose that is a whole different conversation.

    Well I will still explain, it is like Christmas, or what I like to call economy day. It always has to be bigger than last year. We always have to compare it. It is the same with our population. We have more people now than ever, even if we don't populate enough to keep that up even if drops a bit, it is still more than ever. I am not sure that is a problem, it is actually better for the earth.

    A link I read said our population is projected to be 11.2 billion by 2100 and now what are we at like 8 billion? That is a clear increase in population. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth

    But I am no expert in this department though. Those are just my thoughts on this.

    When our labor is replaced by automation
    As a generalization, that will never happen.

    We have more people now than ever, even if we don't populate enough to keep that up even if drops a bit, it is still more than ever.
    Not when we reach sub-replacement fertility. People die.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    As a generalization, that will never happen.



    Not when we reach sub-replacement fertility. People die.
    Honestly a lot of jobs have already been replaced by automation. With the coming of the AI, it will be more so. Not to mention manufacturing. Sure all of our jobs wont be replaced but tons and tons of them will. This is something that is happening already. I am not really advocating for it though quite the opposite. I think automation is good for some things, but some not. I really don't like the idea of it. But there is nothing I can do to stop it.
    We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    A falling population cannot afford the social welfare programs in the developed nations. So if we really want lower populations we need to start cutting these programs over time.
    Then how did we do it 20 years ago when the population was smaller? Just a thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    Then how did we do it 20 years ago when the population was smaller? Just a thought.
    Because there were more workers paying into the system than people, to include retirees taking from the system.

    Absolute numbers are not the issue. The ration between the two groups is the issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    Honestly a lot of jobs have already been replaced by automation. With the coming of the AI, it will be more so. Not to mention manufacturing. Sure all of our jobs wont be replaced but tons and tons of them will. This is something that is happening already. I am not really advocating for it though quite the opposite. I think automation is good for some things, but some not. I really don't like the idea of it. But there is nothing I can do to stop it.

    The key word is displaced, not replaced.

    Otherwise, millions of more would be laid out in the streets dying of starvation. Fire was automation. The first stone cutters. The wheel. Automation creates new jobs.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The key word is displaced, not replaced.

    Otherwise, millions of more would be laid out in the streets dying of starvation. Fire was automation. The first stone cutters. The wheel. Automation creates new jobs.
    The wheel and all of the others you mentioned required people to operate them or perform the operations. Automation requires very few to operate it in comparison. When robots can build robots, we will be cut out of the picture. There will be very few jobs, left for people. Look at customer service now, thousands have been replaced by automated services. The automated AI did not give us more jobs it cut jobs. Look at china when they started automating factories, it didn't create more jobs it x'd workers out of the equation. They can get things done cheaper and more efficient. It is about the bottom line. But what does that mean for us? Without the workers, then there is no one with money to buy things. Then the companies who were trying to save a buck and have machines do their labor end up with no one to buy their stuff in the end.
    We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Because there were more workers paying into the system than people, to include retirees taking from the system.

    Absolute numbers are not the issue. The ration between the two groups is the issue.
    I don't know what the solutions for the future will be. But I do have hope that we will evolve somewhat mentally and the world will change the way they do business. I am hoping we stop needless wars, that is where the bulk of our money goes. Once we stop that, then we will have more to work with to better our society. But I haven't thought deep enough and long enough on this particular issue to have any solid answers, just opinions for now.

    We are not exactly sure what kind of future world we will be moving towards. Anything goes for now. So it is hard to predict or even speculate. An asteroid could hit the earth, or a solar flare who knows what and it could change everything over night. But we should work it out though.

    Another thing that could help is ending corporate welfare. There are certain things that could take some burden off of the system as well. Like Green energy co-op's that supply neighborhoods with energy at a lower rate. There are also neighborhood green houses or gardening. This would provide at least a portion of peoples food. If everyone worked together perhaps we could take a huge burden off of the system. It would require all of us to do our part, the corporations, and the people. We would all have to stop taking. If only the truly needy were helped and our money was not being spent on war, and people worked together as a society to improve things then maybe we could get somewhere. But right now it is a take, take world with no end in sight.
    We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    The wheel and all of the others you mentioned required people to operate them or perform the operations. Automation requires very few to operate it in comparison. When robots can build robots, we will be cut out of the picture. There will be very few jobs, left for people. Look at customer service now, thousands have been replaced by automated services. The automated AI did not give us more jobs it cut jobs. Look at china when they started automating factories, it didn't create more jobs it x'd workers out of the equation. They can get things done cheaper and more efficient. It is about the bottom line. But what does that mean for us? Without the workers, then there is no one with money to buy things. Then the companies who were trying to save a buck and have machines do their labor end up with no one to buy their stuff in the end.
    You miss my point which is that automation doesn't replace but only displaces labor. The wheel replaced the labor of carrying things on the backs of men and animals. In doing do it increased the reach of trade and the demand for goods, and thus the demand for more labor.

    Robots do mechanical work, from lifting to calculating, they do not and never will create imaginatively. There will always be humans involved because humans do not yet understand the mind and soul to be able to reproduce them.

    Look at china when they started automating factories, it didn't create more jobs it x'd workers out of the equation.
    No, it displaced them. Those workers now work at other jobs. If all those workers are unnecessary now then who consumes what robots produce? Robots?!?!

    I see where you're coming from, though, corporations are evil!!! So I choose to walk away...
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    You miss my point which is that automation doesn't replace but only displaces labor. The wheel replaced the labor of carrying things on the backs of men and animals. In doing do it increased the reach of trade and the demand for goods, and thus the demand for more labor.

    Robots do mechanical work, from lifting to calculating, they do not and never will create imaginatively. There will always be humans involved because humans do not yet understand the mind and soul to be able to reproduce them.



    No, it displaced them. Those workers now work at other jobs. If all those workers are unnecessary now then who consumes what robots produce? Robots?!?!

    I see where you're coming from, though, corporations are evil!!! So I choose to walk away...
    To me it is an equation whereby the corporations accidently take their own selves out of the equation. Or take us out of the equation. In the end it would be us.
    We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.

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