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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    You ate a lot of meat for 65 years, maintained a healthy weight and were in generally good health? You attribute your continued good health to a sudden change at age 65? Do I understand you correctly?
    Not exactly. It's likely that I could have continued being healthy right up to the point where I would be diagnosed with either prostate cancer, pancreatic cancer, colon cancer, liver cancer or lung cancer. My father was diagnosed with prostate cancer around age 78. My brother was diagnosed with prostate cancer in his late 70s or early 80s. My uncle died of cancer around mid 70s. Two cousins died of liver cancer. Those were just the men who had cancer and they were all healthy until they were diagnosed with cancer.

    I figured if I wanted to lower my risk, the sooner I changed my diet the better off I would be. My brother started changing his diet after he was diagnosed with prostate cancer but it was too little and too late.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpster View Post
    Not exactly. It's likely that I could have continued being healthy right up to the point where I would be diagnosed with either prostate cancer, pancreatic cancer, colon cancer, liver cancer or lung cancer. My father was diagnosed with prostate cancer around age 78. My brother was diagnosed with prostate cancer in his late 70s or early 80s. My uncle died of cancer around mid 70s. Two cousins died of liver cancer. Those were just the men who had cancer and they were all healthy until they were diagnosed with cancer.

    I figured if I wanted to lower my risk, the sooner I changed my diet the better off I would be. My brother started changing his diet after he was diagnosed with prostate cancer but it was too little and too late.
    But is it likely that you could avoid such a diagnosis with such a late dietary change? After 65 years of (supposedly) poor eating habits you adopt a vegan diet and avoid cancer? Quite frankly, I find that less than plausible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    It would be nice to see how you would have done with organic (grass fed) meat. The better Omega 3/6 ration might have be perfect for you. Too many Omega-6 promotes inflammation with promotes cancer.
    Of course I would have done better by having Omega 3 and 6 balanced. But there's more to look at besides that. For example: "Insulin like Growth Factor 1" (IGF1) If you do a goggle search it will say that it's a hormone that helps promote growth. That might be good if you're in your growing years - it will help you to grow. But as you get older, especially during the years when cancer is more likely, IGF1 is likely to promote cancer. This is not a very complete explanation, which would be difficult, that's why I recommended "The China Study" in the above post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpster View Post
    Oops. That's true.



    I agree to a limited extent because I ate a lot of meat until I was age 65 and my health was generally good. At one point I even tried the Paleo regimen and the "Eat for Your Blood Type" regimen (My blood is type O). They both recommended meat as the way to be healthy. And, for many years before that, I was practicing the Zone regimen. At the time, I didn't know it was a high protein regimen but was later informed of that by other authors.

    I believe I was healthy with all of those regimens, and my weight was always ideal, because I pretty much stayed away from highly processed foods. And this is in spite of the fact that I wasn't eating organic and wasn't eating grass fed meat and eggs.

    So why did I bother changing to veganism? You might remember that I told this story before. The reason is because I had family members who were also very healthy until they discovered they had cancer, and that includes everyone in my immediate family plus many aunts and uncles. As a result, I always did a lot of reading, searching for the cause. What was causing all the cancer when none of my grandparents ever had cancer?

    Then someone on another message board, who knew I was interested in health, asked me if I had read "The China Study" by T. Colin Campbell PhD. It was a relatively new book and I agreed that I would read it, but was in no hurry to do so. When I finally got around to reading it, I was amazed at what I found. The bottom line is that animal protein promotes cancer. So I began changing my diet by the time I got to chapter 3 and was totally vegan within a month. Now, after being a vegan for about 13 years, I think my health is even better than it was before and I'm not 65 anymore, I'm 78. No cancer or any other health issues and I don't need to take medication which is kind of rare for someone my age. (The average 75 year old takes 3 or more medications every day.)

    And this is by no means the whole story. Animal protein can raise the risk for many other degenerative diseases.
    Wow Trumpster, I would have never imagined that you are 78. I thought you were very young. You have the energy and vibe of a young person. I am amazed, and impressed!
    We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.

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    I went 100% vegan in like 2007. I always got blood work and it was always perfect. My protein was the same as a meat eating person. I ate a lot of legumes and nuts. I ate so many fruits and vegetables. My only flaw was that I didn't know about B12. Had I known that I would have supplemented. But my health was excellent. I was never weak or sickly from my eating. I did get sick later but it had nothing to do with my diet. If a vegan eats the correct foods there is no reason that it should be a harm. But I do agree that humans are omnivores. I am not sure if we were always meat eaters, but I do know that we have lived on meat for a very long time. But not like we do now. Meat used to be used differently than it is now. Now people eat it every day in large amounts. But meat was not eaten like that before.

    I also believe that our diets would have been seasonal. Probably meat would have been a winter staple, and fruits and vegetables in the summer and fall, perhaps with eating much less meat during those times. But then when winter came again and the greens were not plentiful, perhaps meat would have been the only thing on the menu besides maybe tubers and roots.

    I once read a book by a Zen master, I don't recall what book it was, but he made a statement about how people believe that we cant survive or be healthy without meat, and he said something about how they say that while whipping the cow while he grazes on grass. His point was that a cow for instance is a very large animal, he can grow huge and strong with no meat. But us humans believe we have to have meat, and so we eat the cow.

    Anyways it was something like that. I don't hate on meat eaters, because I was born into a meat eating family. Humans have been eating meat for as far back as we can look in history. For me it is just a personal decision. I just really don't want to hurt any animals. I know that not eating meat does not exempt me from harming animals. I am still complicit. But I am just trying to do the least possible harm, even though it is still not good enough. I do eat eggs now but even that bothers me.

    I know that there are places in India where lots of people are vegetarians. They don't get things like b12 deficiency, because they don't wash the fruit and by doing so they eat the larvae that are on the skin, at least that is something I read in the past. It was some article about Jainism. I guess they only eat fruit once it has fallen from the tree. It is really different. Here is an article about their diet. http://www.jainfoodie.com/jain-food-restrictions/ There are a lot of vegetarians in India, only some of them are Jains. I find these things to be interesting there is always something to learn.
    We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    I went 100% vegan in like 2007. I always got blood work and it was always perfect. My protein was the same as a meat eating person. I ate a lot of legumes and nuts. I ate so many fruits and vegetables. My only flaw was that I didn't know about B12. Had I known that I would have supplemented. But my health was excellent. I was never weak or sickly from my eating. I did get sick later but it had nothing to do with my diet. If a vegan eats the correct foods there is no reason that it should be a harm. But I do agree that humans are omnivores. I am not sure if we were always meat eaters, but I do know that we have lived on meat for a very long time. But not like we do now. Meat used to be used differently than it is now. Now people eat it every day in large amounts. But meat was not eaten like that before.

    I also believe that our diets would have been seasonal. Probably meat would have been a winter staple, and fruits and vegetables in the summer and fall, perhaps with eating much less meat during those times. But then when winter came again and the greens were not plentiful, perhaps meat would have been the only thing on the menu besides maybe tubers and roots.

    I once read a book by a Zen master, I don't recall what book it was, but he made a statement about how people believe that we cant survive or be healthy without meat, and he said something about how they say that while whipping the cow while he grazes on grass. His point was that a cow for instance is a very large animal, he can grow huge and strong with no meat. But us humans believe we have to have meat, and so we eat the cow.

    Anyways it was something like that. I don't hate on meat eaters, because I was born into a meat eating family. Humans have been eating meat for as far back as we can look in history. For me it is just a personal decision. I just really don't want to hurt any animals. I know that not eating meat does not exempt me from harming animals. I am still complicit. But I am just trying to do the least possible harm, even though it is still not good enough. I do eat eggs now but even that bothers me.

    I know that there are places in India where lots of people are vegetarians. They don't get things like b12 deficiency, because they don't wash the fruit and by doing so they eat the larvae that are on the skin, at least that is something I read in the past. It was some article about Jainism. I guess they only eat fruit once it has fallen from the tree. It is really different. Here is an article about their diet. http://www.jainfoodie.com/jain-food-restrictions/ There are a lot of vegetarians in India, only some of them are Jains. I find these things to be interesting there is always something to learn.
    B12 deficiency is relatively common in India and many of the vegetarians are lactovegetarians meaning they consume dairy.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    B12 deficiency is relatively common in India and many of the vegetarians are lactovegetarians meaning they consume dairy.
    Yeah most vegetarians do consume dairy. But Vegans do not. Normally vegetarians consume eggs and dairy. I didn't know that the B12 deficiency was common, but it is not surprising. I had read that it was rare, well at least for the Jains. But not all vegetarians in India are Jains. Those are just a specific group of people.
    We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    Yeah most vegetarians do consume dairy. But Vegans do not. Normally vegetarians consume eggs and dairy. I didn't know that the B12 deficiency was common, but it is not surprising. I had read that it was rare, well at least for the Jains. But not all vegetarians in India are Jains. Those are just a specific group of people.
    That's partly because of poverty but from what I understand cultural and religious practices entailing a vegetarian diet are a major factor.
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  12. #29
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    Lol I read recently about different kinds of vegetarianism. Some eat eggs, some eat seafood. C'mon... there's a point where you're just cheating.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Lol I read recently about different kinds of vegetarianism. Some eat eggs, some eat seafood. C'mon... there's a point where you're just cheating.
    Well yeah seafood that is not vegetarian. LoL. But most vegetarians eat eggs and dairy, but vegans are very strict. I was even more strict than the vegans but not anymore since I added eggs. But I have always had an aversion to the word vegan or vegetarian. I never considered myself to be any of those. But for conversations sake I will say it even though I have an aversion to it. But yeah that is totally cheating for sure. Faux vegetarians who eat meat, LoL.
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