The Dead, the Living, the Unborn

[Dr. Who]

Burke said we should honor ("fulfill (an obligation) or keep (an agreement)") those partnerships with the dead and the unborn.

No one is talking about thoughtless adherence. In order to change that partnership, you would first need to be able to identify its dysfunctionalities and then reason out solutions with full consideration of consequences given that reason is itself flawed.

Paine, like most liberals, classical and modern, advocated undermining and removing those partnerships, i.e., "thinking outside the box," and replacing them with the State. That is, "Laws [that] shouldn't even be required, but..." with the natural social order destroyed, "...human nature is decidedly unhealthy, and abandoning children is only one of the evils people do."

He is arguably considered the father of the American Revolution for his published criticisms of the corruption of the Crown. Are you suggesting that the Revolution was a misguided, liberal abandonment of tradition?

[Mister D]

He is arguably considered the father of the American Revolution for his published criticisms of the corruption of the Crown. Are you suggesting that the Revolution was a misguided, liberal abandonment of tradition?

To a certain extent I certainly would.

[Dr. Who]

To a certain extent I certainly would.

You may want to explain what "to a certain extent" means because the philosophy behind the revolution is inextricably woven into the identity of America, its constitution and its form of government.

[Chris]

He is arguably considered the father of the American Revolution for his published criticisms of the corruption of the Crown. Are you suggesting that the Revolution was a misguided, liberal abandonment of tradition?

Well-intentioned, but, in its reliance on reason, misguided.

[Chris]

How does one change an agreement with a dead person?

Traditions are kept because they have value. If a tradition lacks a definable value, why retain it, since it is an expense to perpetuate it?

We used to inter our dead. Now many opt for the incinerator...er..crematorium. Traditions change with time.

Used to be that the burden of fertility could be resolved by exposing the surplus child on a hill. That not just frowned on now, it's a criminal matter.

I must be a liberal. I'm opposed to old customs for creating dead people.

Renegotiate.

Traditions, customs, institutions of society do change in cultural decline.

I think you are a liberal.

[Mister D]

You may want to explain what "to a certain extent" means because the philosophy behind the revolution is inextricably woven into the identity of America, its constitution and its form of government.

It's the quintessential liberal country. Does that help?

[Chris]

You may want to explain what "to a certain extent" means because the philosophy behind the revolution is inextricably woven into the identity of America, its constitution and its form of government.

Think bigger, the entire liberal project starting with the Enlightenment, think democracy and its twin (opposing) pillars of individualism and egalitarianism, include the bloody French Revolution, think world wars, think Marxism and the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the rise in national populism of illiberal democracy.

[Mister D]

Regarding Paine, "He lived long, did some good and much harm". Was an obituary ever pithier?

[Chris]

Regarding Paine, "He lived long, did some good and much harm". Was an obituary ever pithier?

Add that he died pretty much friendless.

[Dr. Who]

It's the quintessential liberal country. Does that help?

It does complicate the 'constitutionalist conservative', 'conservative', 'liberal' dynamic.