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Thread: The Dead, the Living, the Unborn

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    The Dead, the Living, the Unborn

    Came across WHEN WE BLAST OUR DEAD LOVED ONES TO SPACE wherein it's said "They’re a group among a wider trend of space-based memorial services, where companies offer to send cremains—usually a “symbolic” few ash grams in a capsule—of a loved one to the edge of space, the moon, or endless earth orbit."

    We all are more used to local cemeteries where the dead are buried at some distance but not in orbital distance!

    The ancients used to bury and worship their ancestors on fenced off areas on the family land and honor them at the hearth. See Numa Denis Fustel de Coulanges' The Ancient Cty.

    Then today I read THE DEMOCRACY OF THE UNBORN:

    Society has been reduced to those living in the present; but in being reduced, it has excluded the democracy of the dead and unborn. We, in the present, must fight for this most obscure of all classes.

    ...Essentially, to those in favor of abortion, the unborn are not living people, which means they have no rights. Only once the unborn enters this world do abortion advocates believe an infant has rights.

    The source of the liberal moral foundation of rights endowed to Man in this fashion is Thomas Paine, specifically his book, The Rights of Man. Yet oddly, in this instance, The Rights of Man actually strips the unborn of their rights.

    Paine advocated for the emancipation of the individual from the oppressive ties of tradition, particularly the notion that the dead have any authority over the living:

    I am contending for the rights of the living, and against their being willed away, and controlled and contracted for, by the manuscript assumed authority of the dead, and Mr. Burke is contending for the authority of the dead over the rights and freedom of the living.

    Paine desired to free himself from the oppressive dead-weight of the past, enabling the present generation to live their lives freely, unencumbered by the deceased.

    The “Mr. Burke” Paine references is Edmund Burke, the first conservative. He refers to a passage from Edmund Burke’s brilliant and enduring work, Reflections On the Revolution in France:

    Society is indeed a contract…. It is to be looked on with other reverence; because it is not a partnership in things subservient only to the gross animal existence of a temporary and perishable nature. It is a partnership in all science; a partnership in all art; a partnership in every virtue, and in all perfection. As the ends of such a partnership cannot be obtained in many generations, it becomes a partnership not only between those who are living, but between those who are living, those who are dead, and those who are to be born.

    Burke understood that the dead and the unborn are as much a part of civilization as the living. We are not born free and independent, but rather are born into a context built for us by our ancestors. This context is maintained by the complicated web of duties to piety and posterity....
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    The dead created the society we inherit. It is up to the adult living to accept that or change is as needed or desired, as the the had done to their inheritance in their turn.

    The obligation of the living is to their posterity, not their ancestry, so changes made to our cultural and social inheritance must be conducted with an eye to the needs of our unborn, as well as towards our own interests...but a good parent makes sacrifices of their lifestyle and livelihood to ensure a better workd for their children.

    Never forget that our Constitution was enacted to bring the benefits of liberty to ourselves AND OUR POSTERITY.
    Freedom Requires Obstinance.

    We the People DID NOT vote in a majority Rodent Congress, they stole it via election fraud.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Sergeant Gleed For This Useful Post:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Gleed View Post
    The dead created the society we inherit. It is up to the adult living to accept that or change is as needed or desired, as the the had done to their inheritance in their turn.

    The obligation of the living is to their posterity, not their ancestry, so changes made to our cultural and social inheritance must be conducted with an eye to the needs of our unborn, as well as towards our own interests...but a good parent makes sacrifices of their lifestyle and livelihood to ensure a better workd for their children.

    Never forget that our Constitution was enacted to bring the benefits of liberty to ourselves AND OUR POSTERITY.

    Well, that's very liberal of you.

    We have obligations to honor the dead. Memorial Day is but one example.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Well, that's very liberal of you.

    We have obligations to honor the dead. Memorial Day is but one example.
    Actually, we are not "obligated" to honor anyone.

    Honor is earned.

    We SHOULD honor our respectable dead, for they have engaged in heroic acts and sacrifices to the benefit of their pisterity, among whom are us. And we should express our gratitude in a way that makes it clear to our children thst we have made similar sacrifices, not to the death, of course, but similar to show the children they are expected to behave as adults.

    As far as the rest of your insinuations go, I served six years in the Navy, earned my dolphins, was honorably discharged and have always paid my own way and continued to defend the Constitution.
    Freedom Requires Obstinance.

    We the People DID NOT vote in a majority Rodent Congress, they stole it via election fraud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Gleed View Post
    Actually, we are not "obligated" to honor anyone.

    Honor is earned.

    We SHOULD honor our respectable dead, for they have engaged in heroic acts and sacrifices to the benefit of their pisterity, among whom are us. And we should express our gratitude in a way that makes it clear to our children thst we have made similar sacrifices, not to the death, of course, but similar to show the children they are expected to behave as adults.

    As far as the rest of your insinuations go, I served six years in the Navy, earned my dolphins, was honorably discharged and have always paid my own way and continued to defend the Constitution.

    In another thread we're discussing honoring tradition in terms of marriage. One would suppose by your "the obligation of the living is to their posterity, not their ancestry," that you don't care about that tradition.

    Earlier you stated "The obligation of the living is to their posterity" and now you contradict yourself with "Actually, we are not "obligated" to honor anyone."

    The earning is in the parenting.

    Serving in the Navy doesn't make you right or conservative.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    In another thread we're discussing honoring tradition in terms of marriage. One would suppose by your "the obligation of the living is to their posterity, not their ancestry," that you don't care about that tradition.

    Earlier you stated "The obligation of the living is to their posterity" and now you contradict yourself with "Actually, we are not "obligated" to honor anyone."

    The earning is in the parenting.

    Serving in the Navy doesn't make you right or conservative.
    When YOU assume, you're making an ass out of you, not me.

    Since I am not a participant in that thread, and it would be improper for you to derail your own thread merely because you cannot discuss yor own topic you should probably link that thread to see if I'm interested in participating in that discussion.

    No. I am not obligated to HONOR my offspring if they do not earn it.


    I am obligated to provide for their education and to educate then personally to ensure they know how to choose the correct paths to follow for an honorable adulthood.

    I cannot choose their path for them.

    I am god. That makes me right, always, and conservative, always.

    I see where people who can't defend their own threads have the option to get participants thread - banned here. I think that's really funny, being able to hide like that. Not saying you'd ever do anything like that.
    Last edited by Sergeant Gleed; 05-28-2019 at 05:17 PM.
    Freedom Requires Obstinance.

    We the People DID NOT vote in a majority Rodent Congress, they stole it via election fraud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Gleed View Post
    When YOU assume, you're making an ass out of you, not me.

    Since I am not a participant in that thread, and it would be improper for you to derail your own thread merely because you cannot discuss yor own topic you should probably link that thread to see if I'm interested in participating in that discussion.

    No. I am not obligated to HONOR my offspring if they do not earn it.


    I am obligated to provide for their education and to educate then personally to ensure they know how to choose the correct paths to follow for an honorable adulthood.

    I cannot choose their path for them.

    I am god. That makes me right, always, and conservative, always.

    I see where people who can't defend their own threads have the option to get participants thread - banned here. I think that's really funny, being able to hide like that. Not saying you'd ever do anything like that.

    OK, so you think getting angry and insulting me and delusions of grandeur is somehow an argument against what I said.

    Poor liberal.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Earlier you stated "The obligation of the living is to their posterity" and now you contradict yourself with "Actually, we are not "obligated" to honor anyone."
    These are not contradictory statements. The living are required to care for their children, by law, until they are of age. That is not about honoring them but honoring one's responsibility. "No one is obligated to honor anyone" is a true statement. No one is.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    These are not contradictory statements. The living are required to care for their children, by law, until they are of age. That is not about honoring them but honoring one's responsibility. "No one is obligated to honor anyone" is a true statement. No one is.
    No, it's not contradictory if you go with "regard with great respect" as the definition of honor, but, given the OP context of Burke speaking of contracts, "As the ends of such a partnership cannot be obtained in many generations, it becomes a partnership not only between those who are living, but between those who are living, those who are dead, and those who are to be born" in the sense of the other definition, "fulfill (an obligation) or keep (an agreement)", then it was contradictory of him.

    Why must you appeal to ambiguity?
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    OK, so you think getting angry and insulting me and delusions of grandeur is somehow an argument against what I said.

    Poor liberal.
    So you projecting your feelings of inadequacy onto my posts is advancing whatever discussion you had hoped to have when you started this thread.

    Okay.

    I was merely identifying, in modern terms, what we the living owe the dead...not much, the living...nothing much, and our unborn children...enough so they can start on a higher plane that ourselves and, hopefully, teach them to improve their own starting point.

    You didn't like that and whipped out whatever it is you use instead of a big ten inch record, to derail your own thread.

    Okay.

    You want to pretend I am the angry one for some reason.

    You ever see the movie Ponyo?
    Freedom Requires Obstinance.

    We the People DID NOT vote in a majority Rodent Congress, they stole it via election fraud.

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