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Thread: Five Insights Christianity Brings to Politics

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    @Chris Patrick Deneen is on EWTN right now. It's a Fransican University panel discussing his book Why Liberalism Failed. It's a great discussion focusing so far on the liberal or Lockean conception of man but I find it interesting that no one has yet mentioned the decidedly Christian background of liberal anthropology. I wonder if they would even acknowledge it. They're Catholics so I guess to some extent it makes sense because liberalism has a more direct relationship with Protestantism. Still...
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    #4, which is subsidiarity is pretty much uniquely Catholic.

    #5, liberals, who tend to be secular, are also prone to utopian fantasies--in believing the state is divine.


    It would be interesting if you took your comment further and gave an example of another group that fit all 5 items. That would contribute something to the discussion.
    As I recall, a community of communities is how Christopher Dawson defined Europe.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    If you believe that why should it be aimed at anyone?

    I didn't want Chris to think I was talking to him. It was meant as a general response.

    Why wouldn't why believe in it. It's a fact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    But what community of communities stands between the individual and the state?
    None.
    Liberals are a clear and present danger to our nation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Five Insights Christianity Brings to Politics cite the following five items:
    1. The state is not divine
    2. The state is not the final arbiter of justice
    3. The importance of the common Good
    4. A community of communities
    5. Anti-utopianism
    I'm particularly impressed with the 4th:
    The first would apply to any non-Christian as well.

    The common good is nearly a Christian invention.

    A community of communities is what the Church does.

    Chritianity brought forth the idea that utopia isn't even an earthly possibility.

    If I was better read I could answer this better.
    Liberals are a clear and present danger to our nation
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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Interesting concept. But wasn't some of that in place long before Christianity? In fact isn't it the head of catholics who is deemed infalible? Aren't the Godless commies all about the common good? Don't get me wrong , I like this because it feels like a fresh perspective . These are legit questions.
    The Communists gave only lip service about the common good. They didn't believe it. They made no attempt to implement it. They used words as cover for authority.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    A community of communities is subsidiarity. Authority is bottom up. Much as the Pope is the head of the Catholic Church I do believe Catholicism is still organized as subsidiarity, witness the controversy going on with accusing the current Pope of heresy. Communism, in fact, most modern, even liberal democratic ones are the opposite, organized top-down under a centralized authority.
    There is a misconception about the Pope. When the common language mass was put in place there was opposition to it. The Pope's desires about it did not become effective for years.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/m...year-1.2166508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdon View Post
    The first would apply to any non-Christian as well.

    The common good is nearly a Christian invention.

    A community of communities is what the Church does.

    Chritianity brought forth the idea that utopia isn't even an earthly possibility.

    If I was better read I could answer this better.

    The first doesn't apply to those who sought/seek to replace the God with the State. Hegel, "Lectures on the History of History": "The State is the Divine Idea as it exists on Earth."
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    " A Christian vision of government is grounded in key theological and philosophical ideas about the nature of God and reality, the importance of justice, the value of freedom, the role of the family, and a rich understanding of the human person as created in the image of God, made for flourishing, and called to an eternal destiny."

    A Christian vision of government is grounded in key theological and philosophical ideas:

    1) about the nature of God and reality,
    2) the importance of justice,
    3) the value of freedom,
    4) the role of the family,
    5) and a rich understanding of the human person as created in the image of God, made for flourishing, and called to an eternal destiny.

    The fundamental building block in god's creation is the individual made in the likeness of god himself. The individual must be free to flourish.

    Individuals choose to have relationships of all kinds. Perhaps the most important is the relationship between the mother and the infant. From that relationship the family builds. In my opinion next in importance is the relationship between a woman and a man who marry.

    In my opinion the Democrats have overthrown all five ideas.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    " A Christian vision of government is grounded in key theological and philosophical ideas about the nature of God and reality, the importance of justice, the value of freedom, the role of the family, and a rich understanding of the human person as created in the image of God, made for flourishing, and called to an eternal destiny."

    A Christian vision of government is grounded in key theological and philosophical ideas:

    1) about the nature of God and reality,
    2) the importance of justice,
    3) the value of freedom,
    4) the role of the family,
    5) and a rich understanding of the human person as created in the image of God, made for flourishing, and called to an eternal destiny.

    The fundamental building block in god's creation is the individual made in the likeness of god himself. The individual must be free to flourish.

    Individuals choose to have relationships of all kinds. Perhaps the most important is the relationship between the mother and the infant. From that relationship the family builds. In my opinion next in importance is the relationship between a woman and a man who marry.

    In my opinion the Democrats have overthrown all five ideas.

    The OP articles doesn't focus on the individual as you do. Let me quote it again:

    "Human persons are not radical individuals. We are social beings and flourish in community. We are born into families and into cultures, and flourish in communities. At the heart of society is the family. The family is the fundamental unit of society. While the state recognizes the family and has a place in regulating it, family is not simply a construct of the state. It is a natural community and a biological and sociological reality that exists prior to the state. This is one reason why the attempts to redefine marriage is an overreaching of state power and ultimately a totalitarian act. The state acts as the arbiter of reality itself. If biology can be redefined, what possible limits remain?

    "A Christian vision of government recognizes both the independence and social dimension of the family and its need to have space to flourish and live out its responsibilities. As Robert Nisbet and others have noted, the Christian vision of the family in politics sits in between the all controlling paterfamilias of Rome and the radically individualist nuclear family of modernity. Basic social and political issues such as education and private property are embedded in a robust role of the family. In education, the parents, not the schools, government, or churches are the primary educators of the children. In Rerum Novarum Pope Leo XIII grounds his discussion of private property not simply in economic or political terms, but in the light of the family.

    "While families are essential, they cannot flourish on their own. The common good requires rich and varied civil society or what Alexis de Tocqueville called “intermediary institutions.” These include civic and neighborhood groups, churches, mutual aid societies, charitable organizations, schools, and various types of sodalities and voluntary organizations that solve social problems and build community.

    "One way to think about civil society is as a community of communities that promote the common good and encourage solidarity and human flourishing."
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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