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Thread: Spotting concealed gun isn’t reason enough for police to stop and investigate, top st

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    Spotting concealed gun isn’t reason enough for police to stop and investigate, top st

    Spotting concealed gun isn’t reason enough for police to stop and investigate, top stop and investigate, top PA court rules

    No kidding.

    The Pennsylvania Supreme Court has ruled that police violate the Fourth Amendment when they stop people simply because they are carrying concealed guns.The Friday ruling overturns a 1991 state decision that had held that carrying a concealed gun constitutes reasonable suspicion for police to stop the individual and investigate whether the person has the proper gun license, the Allentown Morning Call reports. How Appealing notes the story and links to the majority opinion and two concurrences (here and here).


    The Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled in the Allentown case of Michael Hicks, who was spotted on a surveillance camera either putting a gun into his waistband or adjusting his garments around it in the early-morning hours in June 2014. He walked into a convenience store in Allentown with the outline of the gun visible through his shirt. Hicks returned to his car, and police stopped him before he could exit the parking lot.


    It turned out that Hicks had a valid license to carry a concealed firearm. But police detected an odor of alcohol, and when they searched Hicks, they said they found a small bag of marijuana in his pocket. Hicks was charged with driving under the influence and possession of marijuana. He was convicted only on the DUI count.


    The Pennsylvania Supreme Court said the investigatory stop was not justified under the 1968 U.S. Supreme Court decision Terry v. Ohio. That case allows police to stop and frisk a person based on a reasonable suspicion that a person is involved in criminal activity and could be armed and dangerous.


    In 1991, a Pennsylvania appeals court ruled in Commonwealth v. Robinson that possession of a concealed firearm in public is sufficient to create a reasonable suspicion that a person is dangerous, allowing police to briefly detain the individual to check for the proper license. The decision created what is known as the “Robinson rule” in the state.


    In the Friday decision, the state supreme court overturned Robinson and said evidence from Hicks’ detention should have been suppressed. Robinson “contravenes the requirements of the Terry doctrine and thus subverts the fundamental protections of the Fourth Amendment,” the Pennsylvania Supreme Court said.

    We find no justification for the notion that a police officer may infer criminal activity merely from an individual’s possession of a concealed firearm in public,” the state high court said. “Absent some other circumstances giving rise to a suspicion of criminality, a seizure upon that basis alone is unreasonable.”
    The State needs to butt out of our rights to keep and bear arms.
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    I would think once you can see the gun its not a concealed weapon
    LETS GO BRANDON
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    I would think once you can see the gun its not a concealed weapon
    The court said that is not enough to stop a citizen. You have to have probable cause to believe a crime was committed and the accused did it.

    It is not illegal to not perfectly conceal your weapon.
    Last edited by Peter1469; 06-08-2019 at 07:01 AM.
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    It never ceases to amaze me that some people are convinced they need permission to practice their Rights.
    The almighty State loves it when they control your Rights instead of you, thereby making it a privilege instead of a Right
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me that some people are convinced they need permission to practice their Rights.
    The almighty State loves it when they control your Rights instead of you, thereby making it a privilege instead of a Right
    That is why liberals have used the State to destroy social institutions that use to stand between the citizen and the State. It forces the citizen to embrace the State for cradle to grave government intervention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    The court said that is not enough to stop a citizen. You have to have probably cause to believe a crime was committed and the accused did it.

    It is not illegal to not perfectly conceal your weapon.
    You can be charged in fla for exposing your concealed weapon, its to be concealed at ALL times in public
    LETS GO BRANDON
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    You can be charged in fla for exposing your concealed weapon, its to be concealed at ALL times in public

    From the OP it does not appear that the person exposed his weapon. At least not intentionally. I see people carrying concealed often, but I know what to look for. Like LOEs that are worth their paycheck.

    The point is that cops can't use that as the basis of a search.
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