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[Ransom]

I understand what you are saying. But does that mean you have given up on the union? Because we can\t take too much more of this. I'm not talking about utopia , just better, Constitutionally limited, fiscally responsible government allowing states and individuals to have rights and responsibilities.. Warts and all. I do realize that local, state and congress is where we need to elect third parties before ever truly challenging for the presidency. The lesser of two evils has brought the Union to death's door. I will not, cannot, submit willingly to it, even if my hopes are futile. The sad thing is that if everyone who was dissatisfied had voted for change a few years back we'd have change by now. That is part of the point behind the polarization. Blind devotion, like a cult.

How about you first get elected dog catcher, donttread, see if you can manage the 'dog crisis' first before we allow you to set foot in the halls of any governance. Small steps, eh?

[Peter1469]

I wonder what will rise from the ashes? Maybe that is where the Libertarian view has a chance. However, depending on how and when the crash occurs so do socialist ( it was the evils of conciousless crony capitalism that broke the country), dictatorship[ or military rule ( the people are too stupid to govern themselves and that is what happened) or the enemies we have made ( strike while they are weak)

Many different things will emerge. Local standards will rule. In big cities, gangs will rule.

[Tahuyaman]

Voting (D) or (R) is a vote for a currency collapse. Are you prepared?

I don’t know that it’s so much an issue of R or D as it is an issue of politics being made into a career. There are some who have spent little to no time actually working for a living in the private sector. They protect their career. If a third party type gets elected to a national position they too could be corrupted.

We need people who take the US Constitution seriously no matter which party they identify with.

[donttread]

How about you first get elected dog catcher, donttread, see if you can manage the 'dog crisis' first before we allow you to set foot in the halls of any governance. Small steps, eh?

Swing and a miss! Nothing of accuracy or value in your post. However, you do serve as a great example of where polarization takes people.

[donttread]

I don’t know that it’s so much an issue of R or D as it is an issue of politics being made into a career. There are some who have spent little to no time actually working for a living in the private sector. They protect their career. If a third party type gets elected to a national position they too could be corrupted.

We need people who take the US Constitution seriously no matter which party they identify with.

Right now it is very much also a matter of "Aor B". For me the rest of your post hit the nail on the proverbial head. I think we need a term limits amendment, a balanced budget amendment and an amendment requiring congress/admin to actually follow the Constitution.

[Ransom]

Swing and a miss! Nothing of accuracy or value in your post. However, you do serve as a great example of where polarization takes people.

What serves as a great example of the governance you advocate, donttread? Pretend I'm from Missouri and show me what you're speaking to.
Cuba?

[donttread]

What serves as a great example of the governance you advocate, donttread? Pretend I'm from Missouri and show me what you're speaking to.
Cuba?

This thread is not about the solution. First we must get people to see the problem. Which is mindless devotion to one of two parties who offer essentially the same results and corruption that they have offered for decades and in the process destroying what little is left of the "Union" as well as how we are viewed in the world and oh yeah solvency .

[Captdon]

Voting (D) or (R) is a vote for a currency collapse. Are you prepared?

Doesn't change the fact that an Independent will never be elected as such. That's reality.

[Peter1469]

Doesn't change the fact that an Independent will never be elected as such. That's reality.

That is why I do what I can to be prepared with our nation collapses.

[Ransom]

This thread is not about the solution.

None of these threads where your arguments are concerned are about the solution, donttread. But guess what? That's what I'm asking for. From you, Sir. I read your posts. It's the (R) and the (D) that are the problem. It's someone else not you. It's the evil and manipulative corporations. It's the overreaching and unaccountable government. It's the factory farms. You never offer any solutions......you identify some problem, most of them made up in my opinion not to mention lacking a gnat's ass hair's worth of historical perspective.....but you never offer a solution. You'll assert some libertairian-isolationist-Marxist should be elected.....well.....to f'n do what? What are YOUR solutions to these problems. "None of our business" when you discuss foreign policy. It's always the way we're doing it now given our two party system that is systemic in domestic issues. What would you do, donttread. And then show me where that's f'n working, because I have an inkling that place doesn't exist. does it?

First we must get people to see the problem.

While surrounded by your 149 corporate products, living a standard unmatched in human history. Your health care unprecedented. Our average life span at record paces. We're the cutting edge of technology, we're the strongest military and economy of any two nations combined. Yeah donttread…...you gotta convince everyone how bad it is, huh? Act the victim, there is always something wrong and libertarian Isolationist Marxists have all the solutions...that are....what? I have asked repeatedly and NEVER received an answer. I will try again. donttread…...Sir.....how many corporate products are in the near vicinity to you that you use on a daily basis while you're getting people to identify all the problems. What other nation affords you the standard of living Americans enjoy...….I think the last time this was discussed it was Switzerland the liberal democracy.....where their women today are protesting women's rights, they've got none apparently.

Which is mindless devotion to one of two parties who offer essentially the same results and corruption that they have offered for decades and in the process destroying what little is left of the "Union" as well as how we are viewed in the world and oh yeah solvency .

You say mindless devotion because you don't understand how the process works, you're not involved in the processes, thus not understanding, you wing it. Look at this last election cycle donttread. Mindless devotion perhaps on the Democrat side....look to the savage backstabbing fight the GOP had. We still have never Trumpers. The Republicans have had Tea Parties and independent movements like the Freedom Caucus. It isn't mindless, it's knowing given its' weaknesses, its' the best system to date. Anywhere. You look to Austria, Israel, France. Teresa May, Merkle......it's cutthroat chaos in Europe where the policies you advocate are engaged.