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Thread: BREAKFAST, (lunch and dinner) on Mars

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Farmers on Mars will need to remove any perchlorate from the Martian soil before using it. One way is to rinse the soil, since perchlorate dissolves in water. Another, more enticing way is to use perchlorate-eating bacteria, which produce oxygen as a metabolic byproduct. That might protect the colonists from serious health problems while also bolstering their breathable air supply. https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astr...-martian-soil/
    #glasshalf-full
    Interested how the gravity field will effect the...everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Farmers on Mars will need to remove any perchlorate from the Martian soil before using it. One way is to rinse the soil, since perchlorate dissolves in water. Another, more enticing way is to use perchlorate-eating bacteria, which produce oxygen as a metabolic byproduct. That might protect the colonists from serious health problems while also bolstering their breathable air supply. https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astr...-martian-soil/
    #glasshalf-full
    Everything will be grown indoors but it has yet to be determined if the Martian soil will have what's needed to grow plants that provide healthful nutrients. It's one thing to say that eating the plants won't kill you, but the important thing is whether the plants will have the nutrients to support good health. That will determine whether or not they will ever be self sustaining.

    All of this reminds me of Biosphere 2. Remember that? https://www.dartmouthalumnimagazine....eally-happened

    Another problem could be toxic dust blowing around outdoors. If even a little gets on their protective outdoor garments they will need to be hosed down before going back inside. That requires a lot of water, like a shower. Will they have plumbing and running water? They won't have it when they first get there and that could be a huge problem. Yes they will have it eventually, if they survive the process of getting set up. They will also need to periodically wash down the outside of their greenhouse to keep the dust from blocking out the sunlight.
    Last edited by Trumpster; 06-17-2019 at 10:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpster View Post
    Everything will be grown indoors but it has yet to be determined if the Martian soil will have what's needed to grow plants that provide healthful nutrients. It's one thing to say that eating the plants won't kill you, but the important thing is whether the plants will have the nutrients to support good health. That will determine whether or not they will ever be self sustaining.

    All of this reminds me of Biosphere 2. Remember that? https://www.dartmouthalumnimagazine....eally-happened

    Another problem could be toxic dust blowing around outdoors. If even a little gets on their protective outdoor garments they will need to be hosed down before going back inside. That requires a lot of water, like a shower. Will they have plumbing and running water? They won't have it when they first get there and that could be a huge problem. Yes they will have it eventually, if they survive the process of getting set up. They will also need to periodically wash down the outside of their greenhouse to keep the dust from blocking out the sunlight.
    If they used an anti-static material in the greenhouse window construction they might not have to wash it, since water would probably be a precious commodity, but I expect that if they can't find a source, they can manufacture it. However, given the lack of any magnetic field on Mars, they should probably live underground and it might be that the subterranean soil might not be toxic.

    They would likely have to sterilize the soil to remove any microbes for a number of reasons. I expect that hydroponics would be useful for growing many plants.
    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    I would hope that we don't let the dangers prevent us from trying. But I need not worry. That is not human nature. We dare to achieve.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zachroidott View Post
    Interested how the gravity field will effect the...everything.
    Great question!

    Since the gravity on Mars is only 38% of the surface gravity on earth, those who live on Mars will lose large amounts of bone and muscle mass, and that includes the heart muscle. But that's not all.....read the following article:


    The Strange, Deadly Effects Mars Would Have On Your Body
    https://www.wired.com/2014/02/happens-body-mars/
    Last edited by Trumpster; 06-18-2019 at 04:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpster View Post
    Everything will be grown indoors but it has yet to be determined if the Martian soil will have what's needed to grow plants that provide healthful nutrients. It's one thing to say that eating the plants won't kill you, but the important thing is whether the plants will have the nutrients to support good health. That will determine whether or not they will ever be self sustaining.

    All of this reminds me of Biosphere 2. Remember that? https://www.dartmouthalumnimagazine....eally-happened

    Another problem could be toxic dust blowing around outdoors. If even a little gets on their protective outdoor garments they will need to be hosed down before going back inside. That requires a lot of water, like a shower. Will they have plumbing and running water? They won't have it when they first get there and that could be a huge problem. Yes they will have it eventually, if they survive the process of getting set up. They will also need to periodically wash down the outside of their greenhouse to keep the dust from blocking out the sunlight.
    Hosed down before they come inside?

    No.

    They would use the equivalent of mudrooms, where they enter, close the door so it can be pressurized.

    They would then use an air shower to blast off the loose particles from the suit exterior. This step could actually be done outside in a enclosed porch at Martian pressure, before entering g the air lock for a second air shower.

    Then strip off the outer garment before moving into a third area for final strip and wipe before removing the respirator gear. That would be where a water shower would happen, and the water would be recovered and recycled.

    As for the greenhouse panes, they could use three, removing the outer as needed for washing in a separate facility where the cleaning solvents can be recovered before being installed as the inner layer in an endless rotation.

    As you can see, there's no reason to select only PhD's to be colonists.
    Last edited by Sergeant Gleed; 06-18-2019 at 04:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    If they used an anti-static material in the greenhouse window construction they might not have to wash it, since water would probably be a precious commodity, but I expect that if they can't find a source, they can manufacture it. However, given the lack of any magnetic field on Mars, they should probably live underground and it might be that the subterranean soil might not be toxic.

    They would likely have to sterilize the soil to remove any microbes for a number of reasons. I expect that hydroponics would be useful for growing many plants.
    No known microbes yet.

    If microbes are found the Ninth Circuit Court will rule that human exploration of Mars must cease.

    The present state of the surface soils of Mars is very toxic to known life, so further sterilization is probably not needed.

    The fact that Mars has no magnetic field means humans and their crops will be subject to harm by both cosmic rays and solar flares, encouraging a subterranean existence.

    The best thing might be to dig a few feet under and use solar and nuclear power to drive gro-lights in the green houses.

    Like we will be doing on the moon first.

    Also, weight of soil overfill on structure makes it structurally easier to contain the air pressure, even if thst pressure is only 1/3 of earth sea-level normal.
    Freedom Requires Obstinance.

    We the People DID NOT vote in a majority Rodent Congress, they stole it via election fraud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    I would hope that we don't let the dangers prevent us from trying. But I need not worry. That is not human nature. We dare to achieve.
    It won't be the danger, though certainly it's going to take a special person to leave the comforts of earth to colonize any such hostile place, but colonists have always been different.

    What the problem is going to be us whst the problem always is: where's the money and is there enough?

    And Mars will be more expensive than the moon, with, really, a lot less to offer.
    Freedom Requires Obstinance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Gleed View Post
    It won't be the danger, though certainly it's going to take a special person to leave the comforts of earth to colonize any such hostile place, but colonists have always been different.

    What the problem is going to be us whst the problem always is: where's the money and is there enough?

    And Mars will be more expensive than the moon, with, really, a lot less to offer.
    Not necessarily. If you look at it pragmatically, Mars has most of the same minerals as Earth, thus if mankind could set up mining and manufacturing facilities on Mars we could build and launch space craft from an environment with only 38% of the gravity well that we deal with on earth - at least until we figure out anti-gravity. Then the launch site won't matter anymore.
    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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    The question is: Will there ever be a permanent self-sustaining colony of humans on Mars?

    So far, in my opinion, it's just a dream and not at all realistic. To say otherwise is to ignore the long term toll that gravity will take on the human body plus the risk of deadly solar flares. There are so many high-risk issues that if one doesn't do them in, another will.
    Last edited by Trumpster; 06-19-2019 at 10:35 AM.

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