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Thread: Dispelling the myths about public education.

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    Dispelling the myths about public education.

    I work as a substitute teacher in two Florida counties. I've seen the problem up close. Here are the facts: (And interestingly enough, they aren't so much a left versus right deal.)

    1. Teacher pay is determined at the COUNTY level. (In Florida.) If anyone tells you otherwise, that person is lying or doesn't know what he/she/it is talking about. Funding-wise, less than 7 percent of education dollars come from Washington, although most of the idiotic politically correct mandates come from faceless bureaucrats in the Beltway who have never stood before a classroom. They create most of the inertia in the system, (which ironically keeps me in a job, so keep it up, $#@!s.)

    2. In one county, I get a ton of work because teachers are rapidly leaving the profession. (They have degrees. They're young. They're finding better jobs.) Why are they leaving? Most say it's because housing prices are so high that they can't afford to even rent a house on a teaching salary that has not gone up in years. That's legitimate. In this county, on an average Friday during the school year there will be from 40 to 60 shifts that are not covered by a teacher. (As soon as you pick your jaw up off the floor, I'll say it again 40 to 60 shifts, NOT COVERED. And it is a Florida state law that those classes be covered. When I first certified to sub in this county, the moment I got my school badge, my phone was ringing off the hook. This was way before me taking any of the tutorials or having the physical, which included the drug test.) Surprised by that number? In Orange County, in the year 2000, there were over 2000 subs for those schools and the first day of the school year in 2000, there were 200 classes that had no teacher, even with all the subs.

    3. You might hear stories about some teachers saying it's not about the money. It is ALWAYS about the money. There's nothing wrong with that. Teaching is a profession, one that should be paid well. The root of this myth about it not being about the money comes from the fact that teaching is one of the most enjoyable jobs in the universe. With all the bull$#@! they have to put up with, they love their work. They look forward to coming to the job every day. There is a bonding a good teacher has with the kids that is almost hypnotic. I felt it myself as a sub and I always knew I would be walking away from the class. They love the job. It's all they talk about in the teacher's lounge.

    4. How much of the plummeting reading scores and math scores are the fault of the teacher? That bit is a lot more complicated than the politicians would suggest. Democrats blame everyone but the teacher. (Mostly they blame Presidents Reagan and Trump, but they also fault Washington for such low teacher pay, assuming their belief that you're too stupid to know where the teacher salary decisions are made. Today you are no longer too stupid.) Republicans will say it's ALL the teacher's fault, that they are all extremist left wingers who are lazy and stupid. The actual reasons (surprise surprise) are a lot more complicated. Let me count the ways:

    a. Yes, I found more bad teachers in Orange County than the two counties I work now. Maybe one fourth of the sub assignments I got were for teachers staying home because of hangovers. Yes, I've stood before classrooms where a teacher just decided the night before that she was quitting. Perhaps the comparison is not fair. Orange County has more schools than the two counties I work in today combined.

    b. Did you know that there are kids in these classrooms who cannot speak a word of English? And yet the teacher is held accountable for that kid getting through the grades. And nowhere on the application for the teaching job is there a requirement for a teacher to be bilingual.

    c. I'm going out on a limb here and now by saying that 90 percent of the problems in the system are caused by PARENTS. Some parents neglect to discipline their little animals, and they just dump those time bombs in the classroom. The teacher (and/or the sub) is left to deal with the mess. There are ESE kids whose parents will sue the system if you even look sideways at these monsters. (In one school, such a parent sued the county and got a $10,000 settlement for her little brat, and there was no damage except his self esteem for not being allowed to so something. The principal himself sat me down and told me that story.) Teachers are on eggshells with these animals.

    d. Yes, there is social promotion. I subbed for one ESE class, where there was a fifth grade girl who was unable to count past 20. I asked the para-teacher how come this little moron was socially promoted. His response: "What else are you going to do with them?" That is the public school's attitude, right or wrong. The para told me if it weren't for social promotion, the kindergarten classes would have over 200 kids. Yes, Virginia, there are some $#@!ty parents out there. When George W. Bush signed that bill called "no child left behind" it was the cruelest and most delusional LIE ever told to every parent in America. Children are being left behind because their parents don't give a rat's ass about them. Every school in these two counties has an ESE program. (Look it up.) At one high school, an ESE student actually physically assaulted a deputy sheriff on school grounds.(This county uses deputy sheriffs as resource officers, which means you get to watch these people patrol the campus wearing body armor and heavily armed.) The school tried to suspend this monster and his mother threatened a lawsuit. So this animal gets out of jail for the assault and shows up the next day in school.

    e. Yes, I've had to work out of Common Core. In most cases, the phrase is just a name on a brand of textbooks. But I've seen Common Core math in 4th grade classes and it is the most ass backward method of teaching simple addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. Not every school has Common Core textbooks in either county. I've discovered each school is almost like a separate country, when it comes to the culture of how they run things.

    f. In the state of Florida, the teacher's unions are almost irrelevant. This is because teachers are considered state employees and according to Florida law it is illegal for a state employee to go on strike. So you ask, (since this is also a RIGHT TO WORK state) just what good are teacher's unions? Personally, I don't know how much the individual teachers are paying in dues, but the union (and it varies from county to county) offers some good group rates on insurance. Also, (at least in one county that I know of--I haven't checked the other) this union offers some legal assistance to some teachers who are falsely accused of misconduct on the job. So they do have a purpose.

    I haven't even come close to the details about this profession, but I'm ready to take questions. I've got a lot more horror stories for those of you who are interested.

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    I substitute here in one small city. I have found that I actually get better pay than the average teacher. I don't pay union dues and I am not compelled to participate in their retirement programs. I have the option for a 401, but I prefer to take what I can home.
    These teachers are hard working and dedicated, but they don't make more than I do for one day, mainly because I don't have to participate in the offered programs. I have also found I am better educated than some of these teachers.
    Last edited by stjames1_53; 06-19-2019 at 12:12 PM.
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    Reason, thank you for the insights. I'm afraid it confirms some of the fears, perceptions and assumptions of some of us non-teachers, while confirming others.

    Of course the discussion will become politically partisan, because...it's taking place on this forum.

    One of my pet peeves has always been the insistence of many school authorities on trying to deal with all but the most extreme instances of violence, drug possession, sexual assault, etc., "in house". I'm sure that a teacher, bound as they are by school policy, would probably be either fired or severely sanctioned for doing so, but I'd like to see a teacher or school administrator pick up the phone and dial 911 when someone - teacher, student, or whomever - has been assaulted, or when another serious crime has occurred. And I'd like to see more law enforcement agencies recognize that a citizen's right to justice doesn't cease to exist when they enter a school campus, and to stop deferring to the schools' idea of what constitutes appropriate punishment.

    (And no, I'm not talking about one third-grader punching another third-grader. I'm referring to situations where older kids commit serious offenses against others.)

    If a woman, in a workplace situation, is pinned against a wall and sexually assaulted, or one coworker sucker-punches another as he's walking down the hall, does anyone believe that it should be handled "in house" and that they should just "let the boss handle it"? I know of a high school principal who kept a large quantity of confiscated drugs in a locked file cabinet in his office and dealt with the students caught selling or possessing them with detentions and the occasional suspension. When the police authorities found out about it, the principal came close - not nearly close enough, in my opinion - to being arrested himself.

    As for school authorities acquiescing to parents over fears about lawsuits when their little monsters are punished, involving the real police eliminates much of that anxiety. It's not the school dealing out the punishments - it's the real authorities.

    When I was a kid, back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, the great majority of parents were embarrassed by their kids' misbehavior and were more than understanding when it came to accepting that some punishment was needed. These days - and this tendency crosses all racial, social and political bounds - the immediate reaction of too many parents is resentment, suspicion and anger, directed at the authorities, which only serves to assure the kids that they are untouchable.
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    One cannot argue thst teaching is a profession "that should be paid well".

    If teaching is a orofession, then the professionals SHOULD expect to be paid what the free markets allows them to command.

    Which WILL be less than what the teacher goonions can extort through political intimidation upon a willing political class that is eager to spend someone else's money, the tacpayer's money, for guaranteed votes.

    Teachers want to be considered professionals? Fine. Get rid of the goonions and seek to earn your stays by competition, with the best performers rising to the top of the wage market.
    Freedom Requires Obstinance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    I substitute here on one small city. I have found that I actually get better pay than the average teacher. I don't pay union dues and I am not compelled to participate in their retirement programs. I have the option for a 401, but I prefer to take what I can home.
    These teachers are hard working and dedicated, but they don't make more than I do for one day, mainly because I don't have to participate in the offered programs. I have also found I am better educated than some of these teachers.
    Truthfully, a four, six or eight year stint in college does NOT prepare a teacher for that first day of class. The college is no more than just the ante to get into the game. Seminole County, Florida has a pay system for teachers that increases every year. This makes sense because a teacher gets better 90 percent through experience, through standing in front of that class and taking whatever crap the parents are vomiting on the system. Classroom management cannot be taught anywhere except in the classroom.

    You might indeed be more educated than some of the teachers.

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    I agree with the comments about the parents. They are amazingly stupid. Most of them only have an IQ of 100 or so, a mere ten points more than the average teacher.

    At my daughters' elementary school, the principal played the old "we need more money cuz we don't have enough teachers" scam.

    The game goes like this:

    You have fifth grade teacher transferred to a different school.

    Then you take your spare fifth grade teacher who had just been granted her request to teach K that year, and put her back in the fifth grade, which is what she's getting paid for.

    So the fifth grade gap has been filled, but now there's this K gap.

    What would an honest school system do, if such a thing ever existed?

    They'd put out an emergency req for a K teacher, fill it in a week, and move on.

    What does this school system do?

    They double up on the K classes, but, oops, that isn't eniugh, so they put some K's in First...oops, we don't have enough room, let's shift some Firsts into seconds, splitting those clases...ooops, we need to move some Seconds into Thirds, ooops, we need to shift some Thirds into Fourth.

    And all the while notes are coming from the principal that they aren't really playing some kind of shell game con, they just don't have the money..

    And many of the stupid parents BELIEVED them. Those morons are called "PTA members".
    Last edited by Sergeant Gleed; 06-19-2019 at 11:42 AM.
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    How to fix the schools:

    Expulsion.

    If some Brat is too stupid to cut it, fail him.

    If he's too stupid to pass the third grade, and he's five feet talk, kick him out of school.

    Establish hard guidelines and follow them.

    Oh, we'd have to rewrite some law, neuter a bunch of lawyers and judges, but thst is why we have machetes.
    Freedom Requires Obstinance.

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    Reason, thank you for the insights. I'm afraid it confirms some of the fears, perceptions and assumptions of some of us non-teachers, while confirming others. Of course the discussion will become politically partisan, because...it's taking place on this forum.

    It wouldn't be fun, otherwise.

    One of my pet peeves has always been the insistence of many school authorities on trying to deal with all but the most extreme instances of violence, drug possession, sexual assault, etc., "in house". I'm sure that a teacher, bound as they are by school policy, would probably be either fired or severely sanctioned for doing so, but I'd like to see a teacher or school administrator pick up the phone and dial 911 when someone - teacher, student, or whomever - has been assaulted, or when another serious crime has occurred. And I'd like to see more law enforcement agencies recognize that a citizen's right to justice doesn't cease to exist when they enter a school campus, and to stop deferring to the schools' idea of what constitutes appropriate punishment.

    I can't speak for all of Florida counties, but in the two I sub at, the resource officers are active duty deputy sheriffs. They are armed, have radios and have absolutely no problem running towards the sound of gunfire, (unlike that coward at the Stoneman Douglas school who let those kids get killed.) Part of our drills are occasional code reds, where we lock the doors, sit everyone on the floor and wait for the all clear signal. Unfortunately, in Orange County I went through a few REAL code reds at this school in the middle of a crack neighborhood. You haven't lived until you're in a dark classroom and you hear gunfire outside, even remote gunfire. It was a drive by shooting, but that knowledge didn't prevent me from almost $#@!ting myself.
    (And no, I'm not talking about one third-grader punching another third-grader. I'm referring to situations where older kids commit serious offenses against others.)

    Part of the job is breaking up fights. (Easier if you're a big guy like me.) Fortunately, I haven't been faced with the other stuff. I have employed the bullying hotline when I saw some kids threatening other ones. Down here, they take bullying very seriously.

    If a woman, in a workplace situation, is pinned against a wall and sexually assaulted, or one coworker sucker-punches another as he's walking down the hall, does anyone believe that it should be handled "in house" and that they should just "let the boss handle it"? I know of a high school principal who kept a large quantity of confiscated drugs in a locked file cabinet in his office and dealt with the students caught selling or possessing them with detentions and the occasional suspension. When the police authorities found out about it, the principal came close - not nearly close enough, in my opinion - to being arrested himself.

    I hear ya. It's tough. Teachers and principals are not soldiers or law enforcement. They are paid to teach.
    As for school authorities acquiescing to parents over fears about lawsuits when their little monsters are punished, involving the real police eliminates much of that anxiety. It's not the school dealing out the punishments - it's the real authorities.

    The kid I was referring to WAS arrested and taken downtown. And because this occurred on school grounds, the teacher just naturally assuming suspending the little monster wouldn't be a problem. And mom got on the horn and threatened the school with monetary losses. (And you should see how piss poorly most of the equipment in this school is maintained. The gym is a ghetto.)

    When I was a kid, back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, the great majority of parents were embarrassed by their kids' misbehavior and were more than understanding when it came to accepting that some punishment was needed. These days - and this tendency crosses all racial, social and political bounds - the immediate reaction of too many parents is resentment, suspicion and anger, directed at the authorities, which only serves to assure the kids that they are untouchable.

    Hence my theory that parents represent 80 percent of the problem.

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    One cannot argue thst teaching is a profession "that should be paid well". If teaching is a profession, then the professionals SHOULD expect to be paid what the free markets allows them to command.

    Spoken like a true Libertarian. (You people are economics geniuses and you should be the ones teaching this $#@! in the colleges instead of the ignorant Krugmans of the world.) The problem is, public education is never going to be a matter of the free market, except in this one county where teachers are voting with their feet. Teacher pay in these counties I've subbed at (and I'm careful not to assume it's everywhere) is about politics and nothing else.
    Which WILL be less than what the teacher goonions can extort through political intimidation upon a willing political class that is eager to spend someone else's money, the taxpayer's money, for guaranteed votes.

    GOONIONS. I LOVE IT! (Wish I could find a meme for that.) And you're right about unions in certain parts of the country. In Florida, the unions have almost no power because teacher pay differs from county to county. No, I don't believe teachers should get six figure salaries while the people pay 80 percent state income taxes and 20 percent sales taxes. I'd like to compromise. Maybe if the teacher gets extra added work to be done, the pay is increased. In one county, that hasn't happened. I know some teachers who have gone seven years with no raises and their class sizes have doubled, along with the amount if useless work mandated from inside the Beltway. How about, we pay as we go. If we want something extra on the menu, we pay for it, and not treat the system like it's a Golden Corral.
    Teachers want to be considered professionals? Fine. Get rid of the goonions and seek to earn your stays by competition, with the best performers rising to the top of the wage market.

    In a true merit based system, that would be the ultimate goal. In public education, the people making the most money have never stood before a classroom in their lives. The idiots making most of the decisions in Washington have never taught even a dog how to fetch. The local school boards and administrators aren't hired by the public. They're elected, with hardly any educational resumes that would qualify them to be a janitor at a community college.

    I DO love that GOONions thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Gleed View Post
    I agree with the comments about the parents. They are amazingly stupid. Most of them only have an IQ of 100 or so, a mere ten points more than the average teacher.

    At my daughters' elementary school, the principal played the old "we need more money cuz we don't have enough teachers" scam.

    The game goes like this:

    You have fifth grade teacher transferred to a different school.

    Then you take your spare fifth grade teacher who had just been granted her request to teach K that year, and put her back in the fifth grade, which is what she's getting paid for.

    So the fifth grade gap has been filled, but now there's this K gap.

    What would an honest school system do, if such a thing ever existed?

    They'd put out an emergency req for a K teacher, fill it in a week, and move on.

    What does this school system do?

    They double up on the K classes, but, oops, that isn't eniugh, so they put some K's in First...oops, we don't have enough room, let's shift some Firsts into seconds, splitting those clases...ooops, we need to move some Seconds into Thirds, ooops, we need to shift some Thirds into Fourth.

    And all the while notes are coming from the principal that they aren't really playing some kind of shell game con, they just don't have the money..

    And many of the stupid parents BELIEVED them. Those morons are called "PTA members".
    Anybody else reading that would think that you're out of your mind. I've see EXACTLY what you have described on many occasions. It's even worse at some schools.
    Last edited by Reason10; 06-19-2019 at 12:08 PM.

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