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Thread: Three Problems with Capitalism

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    Three Problems with Capitalism

    Arnold Kling is an economist, libertarian, Austrian School, I've read and followed a long time, who, as he's matured, has evolved. From Three Problems with Capitalism, in which he poses the following problems of capitalism:

    Capitalist societies have three problems:
    1. They elevate material values over others.
    2. They create winners and losers.
    3. They undermine communities.
    I will focus on just one that concenrs me more and more.

    Loss of community

    Small communities are governed by the principle of caring for one another. This works when people know each other and tasks are simple.

    Can we take turns cleaning the bathroom? It works if we are talking about a group of 20 kids sharing a bunk at a summer camp. It doesn’t work if we are talking about several hundred people toiling in an office building.

    Can we just operate without markets or organization charts? We can if the task is simple, like pitching a tent or cooking dinner for 10 people, which we can manage just by talking with one another. But for designing, manufacturing, and shipping a new smart phone, coordination involves more than just “You do this and I’ll take care of that.”

    In a large, complex economy, almost everything we consume has been made possible by the contributions of thousands and thousands of people, few of whom we know personally. The coordination involved cannot be governed simply by people caring for one another. It requires management organization within firms and market transactions among firms.

    The inhabitants of a small village will know one another. That is not going to be the case in a large city.

    The more advanced an economy becomes, the less we depend on personal interaction and the more we rely on people we do not know. I remember when a household that needed someone to mow the lawn would hire the neighbor’s son to do the job. Today, people hire strangers.

    He doesn't have a solution but concludes "As capitalist society evolves, people move away from small villages and transact more with strangers. I would not want to reverse those trends, but how can we avoid a sense of loneliness and absence of belonging?"
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    No system is perfect, especially if its ideologically pure

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    I'm a little surprised to see that from an Austrian. Then again, I was surprised by Hoppe's views on non-white immigration.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Holy $#@!!!!

    Really?

    Capitalism creates winners and losers.

    Is that in comparison to all the other command based systems where the goal is deliberately create losers because serfs are more pliable?

    Capitalism in general has to try to create enough winners so someone will consume the vast productivity.

    Capitalism elevates material values over other poverty-based systems where people fight over food and water?

    Isn't fighting over the barest necessities of life, rather than over luxuries, a more desperate valuation of material goods?

    Capitalism "undermines" communities, does it?

    Is thst compared to the various fascist forms of socialism where neighbors turn each other in for crumbs, or compared to all the forms of command based economies in which every is starving?

    What has "undermined" the capitalist societies of today is the following:
    Radio, and then TV, supplanted conversation between neighbors.

    Air conditioning led people to close their doors, shutting out the neighbors to huddle around programmed $#@! on the box.

    The video game eliminated sandpit baseball and kids getting outside to play, damaging early development of socialization skills...and making fat kids.

    The Internet with all its electronic chatrooms, further fractured society into specialty cliques.

    And, then, of course there's the intentional divisiveness of the various enemy groups determined to establish a command economy in the US with them giving the orders.

    WTF is a pretend libertarian doing arguing against the only pi wrtarian economic model in existence?
    Freedom Requires Obstinance.

    We the People DID NOT vote in a majority Rodent Congress, they stole it via election fraud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I'm a little surprised to see that from an Austrian. Then again, I was surprised by Hoppe's views on non-white immigration.
    Yea, taught me a lot but he's transitioned to looking at it all from a non-economical view.

    I think he has no solution because he still pretty much adheres to capitalism, can't escape it.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Gleed View Post
    Holy $#@!!!!

    Really?

    Capitalism creates winners and losers.

    Is that in comparison to all the other command based systems where the goal is deliberately create losers because serfs are more pliable?

    Capitalism in general has to try to create enough winners so someone will consume the vast productivity.

    Capitalism elevates material values over other poverty-based systems where people fight over food and water?

    Isn't fighting over the barest necessities of life, rather than over luxuries, a more desperate valuation of material goods?

    Capitalism "undermines" communities, does it?

    Is thst compared to the various fascist forms of socialism where neighbors turn each other in for crumbs, or compared to all the forms of command based economies in which every is starving?

    What has "undermined" the capitalist societies of today is the following:
    Radio, and then TV, supplanted conversation between neighbors.

    Air conditioning led people to close their doors, shutting out the neighbors to huddle around programmed $#@! on the box.

    The video game eliminated sandpit baseball and kids getting outside to play, damaging early development of socialization skills...and making fat kids.

    The Internet with all its electronic chatrooms, further fractured society into specialty cliques.

    And, then, of course there's the intentional divisiveness of the various enemy groups determined to establish a command economy in the US with them giving the orders.

    WTF is a pretend libertarian doing arguing against the only pi wrtarian economic model in existence?

    Try reading the article instead of setting up strawmen to shoot down like a bad comedian.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Yea, taught me a lot but he's transitioned to looking at it all from a non-economical view.

    I think he has no solution because he still pretty much adheres to capitalism, can't escape it.
    The problem is that people inevitably look for solutions. The last two Centuries demonstrate that well enough. That's not going to stop but the cures have been worse than the disease so I understand his reticence. That said, it would indeed be "unwise" to ignore or dismiss these problems. The future of liberal capitalism depends on solving them.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Arnold Kling is an economist, libertarian, Austrian School, I've read and followed a long time, who, as he's matured, has evolved. From Three Problems with Capitalism, in which he poses the following problems of capitalism:



    I will focus on just one that concenrs me more and more.




    He doesn't have a solution but concludes "As capitalist society evolves, people move away from small villages and transact more with strangers. I would not want to reverse those trends, but how can we avoid a sense of loneliness and absence of belonging?"
    He is a smart idiot and a whiner.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I'm a little surprised to see that from an Austrian. Then again, I was surprised by Hoppe's views on non-white immigration.
    To be fair, his issue is not about their color but their ability to integrate and contribute to society:

    http://blob:https://www.youtube.com/...7-fa553907f5ee
    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    To be fair, his issue is not about their color but their ability to integrate and contribute to society:

    http://blob:https://www.youtube.com/...7-fa553907f5ee
    No one's issue is color but the problems some colors bring. In any case, it's a tangent.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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