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Thread: The Early Church & the Origins of Religious Liberty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The idea of liberty of conscience from Tertullian and others came before those wars, and the idea came to fruition after with the likes of Roger Williams, whose ideas Jefferson cribbed in his letter to the Danbury Baptists about a wall of separation. That wall aims to keep the government out of religion, thus religious freedom.

    Heed your own advice, son. And thanks for the ad hom, Mr Illogic.
    Liberty of conscience is a part of the right to pursue your happiness. It is an individual right.

    I think it was important to keep religion out of government. Government and religion, chained together form the twin pillars of unbearable tyranny. It is the individual that bears the burdens of that united tyranny.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Liberty of conscience is a part of the right to pursue your happiness. It is an individual right.

    I think it was important to keep religion out of government. Government and religion, chained together form the twin pillars of unbearable tyranny. It is the individual that bears the burdens of that united tyranny.

    Historically, it precedes the pursuit of happiness which actually derives from property rights.

    One can look at religion as a relation with God or look at its communal aspects but it is in no way individual.

    The Constitution guarantees no religious test, and that the government will not intrude on religion or form a state religion. It certainly doesn't aim to keep the religious out of the government.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Liberty of conscience is a part of the right to pursue your happiness. It is an individual right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Historically, it precedes the pursuit of happiness which actually derives from property rights.
    Really? Utter nonsense. Individuals have been thinking for a very long time. And individuals have been pursuing happiness for as long as they have been...
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    One can look at religion as a relation with God or look at its communal aspects but it is in no way individual.
    I see. So in the Christian theology individuals are not saved as individuals? Fascinating. Who accepts God's gift if not the individual?
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    I think it was important to keep religion out of government. Government and religion, chained together form the twin pillars of unbearable tyranny. It is the individual that bears the burdens of that united tyranny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The Constitution guarantees no religious test, and that the government will not intrude on religion or form a state religion. It certainly doesn't aim to keep the religious out of the government.
    I made no mention of the religious.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Liberty of conscience is a part of the right to pursue your happiness. It is an individual right.

    Really? Utter nonsense. Individuals have been thinking for a very long time. And individuals have been pursuing happiness for as long as they have been...

    Now you confuse thinking with conscience.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    I see. So in the Christian theology individuals are not saved as individuals? Fascinating. Who accepts God's gift if not the individual?
    They are, I believe, saved in their relationship with God. That's what I said, "One can look at religion as a relation with God." How can a relationship be individual? You've got words all twisted out of sense.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    I think it was important to keep religion out of government. Government and religion, chained together form the twin pillars of unbearable tyranny. It is the individual that bears the burdens of that united tyranny.

    I made no mention of the religious.

    The religious naturally bring their religion with them into government.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Now you confuse thinking with conscience.
    Can one experience a conscience without thinking? Of course not.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    I see. So in the Christian theology individuals are not saved as individuals? Fascinating. Who accepts God's gift if not the individual?
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    They are, I believe, saved in their relationship with God. That's what I said, "One can look at religion as a relation with God." How can a relationship be individual? You've got words all twisted out of sense.
    Individuals have relationships. I see this whole existence thing is still a conundrum for you.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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