User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Kit Carson, villain or hero?

  1. #1
    Original Ranter
    Points: 520,170, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.9%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    425129
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    156,571
    Points
    520,170
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    91,715
    Thanked 76,105x in 51,496 Posts
    Mentioned
    2211 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Kit Carson, villain or hero?

    Kit Carson, villain or hero?

    This is an interesting article considering our present day tendency to judge historical figures with the #metoo and anti-history taint. American Indians, especially Navajo want to change the name of Kit Carson Memorial Park- they see him as a "Hitler" in his treatment of the Navajo in the United States decision to relocate them in the "long walk." The article points out that contemporary and later Navajo leaders and elders blamed certain Navajo and not Kit Carson for the final conflict with the US. Historically the Navajo saw everyone near them as prey. That included other tribes, Mexicans, and Americans. And lastly, Kit Carson treated the Navajo in accordance with the then laws of land warfare and much fairer than the Navajo dealt with their enemies.

    And remember the other local tribes helped the US root out the Navajo. Because they were their main victims.

    For many Americans, the name Kit Carson invokes several of the greatest elements of the American character: bravery, self-sufficiency, and the thrill of exploration. For some, Carson’s name stands for victory over hostile native tribes. But for one group of ethnic grievance activists in Taos, New Mexico, Carson represents racism and American evil. One local politician even drew a direct comparison between Carson and Hitler.

    Taos is the site of Kit Carson Memorial Park, where Carson is buried. The Taos Town Council recently voted to change the name of the Kit Carson Memorial Park to Red Willow Park. The council has since dropped the name change to Red Willow Park, but the council still plans on renaming the area of the park beyond Carson’s graveyard. But has anyone stopped to ask what Kit Carson actually did, or why he is being slandered?


    These questions are part of a deeper, fundamental question about the American identity. Should we feel guilty about the supposed historical injustice of “stealing” native land, or should we refuse to apologize for prevailing in mutual conflict?


    “[Kit Carson] was atrocious, an Indian killer,” said Taos council member Fritz Hahn. “We have got to heal the wreckage of the past, and Kit Carson is part of that.” Council member Judi Cantu posted on Facebook that having a park named after Kit Carson is as offensive as “naming a park in Israel after Adolfo [sic] Hitler.”

    The “wreckage” Hahn referred to is the “Long Walk,” a military operation whereby U.S. soldiers, with the help of several Indian tribes, removed the Navajo from Arizona and northwest New Mexico, then relocated them to an area in eastern New Mexico.

    Who are Kit Carson’s “People”?

    Council member Hahn, claiming to speak on behalf of a “Native American,” said “[s]he feels uncomfortable in the park, which is named after someone who egregiously hurt her people.” For such a person, the thought that “her people” may have hurt American people is beside the point. She has her racial loyalty, and that is the starting point for her worldview. By contrast, Kit Carson does not have an interest group advocating for his heritage and his accomplishments.


    Americans should regard Carson as an admirable, central figure in the settlement of the West. At the very least, a reasonable assessment of Carson would include a few essential facts: Carson was called upon to lead armed forces in a civilizational conflict that would paralyze modern men with dread. He did so with distinction and fairness, in the eyes of many. Simmons notes that Carson was appreciated during his life by “Indians, Mexicans and Americans” [8].


    Carson’s actions were at times forceful, but he acted in keeping with the established norms of military conduct during conflicts of his day. From a moral and practical standpoint, Carson’s treatment of the Navajo was far more humane than the manner in which the Navajo treated their neighbors and enemies. Given all of this, it is an Orwellian rewriting of our history for certain victim groups to slander Carson.


    One of Carson’s great-great-great-grand nieces, Terecita, summed up the essence of the man: “Those of them who treated him with kindness and respect, he did the same. And those of them who treated him with violence and disregard, he did the same.”
    Read the entire article at the link.
    Last edited by Peter1469; 07-08-2019 at 04:18 PM.
    Molon labe
    Please visit my blog http://thepoliticalforums.com/blogs/peter/
    (If a post link does not work, see the archives- it should work there.)

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Peter1469 For This Useful Post:

    Mister D (07-08-2019)

  3. #2
    Points: 57,651, Level: 58
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 699
    Overall activity: 58.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    nathanbforrest45's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    71509
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    In a house on a hill
    Posts
    21,712
    Points
    57,651
    Level
    58
    Thanks Given
    4,422
    Thanked 9,808x in 6,916 Posts
    Mentioned
    103 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    No, he was white, ergo he deserves to be dug up from his grave and fed to the hogs.

    How dare any of us attempt to justify any action committed by any white person ever.
    Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  4. #3
    Points: 38,891, Level: 48
    Level completed: 22%, Points required for next Level: 1,259
    Overall activity: 32.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Cletus's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    180215
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    17,173
    Points
    38,891
    Level
    48
    Thanks Given
    13
    Thanked 11,900x in 7,471 Posts
    Mentioned
    179 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I know Fritz Hahn. He is an idiot. This issue was addressed by the Council a couple of years ago. The town council of Taos tried to change the name of the park without public hearings. It blew up in their face.

    When General Carson relocated the Navajo to the Bosque, His scouts were primarily from Taos Pueblo and the Utes. The Northern Pueblos, the Utes and even the Jicarilla wanted the Navajo gone. They were raiders and slavers who preyed upon the Pueblos. Everyone thinks blankets and pottery when they think of the Navajo, but back then, they were a nasty bunch. Some of the loudest voices calling for their relocation were from other Indian groups.
    Gentlemen and ladies, I hate inflation, I hate taxes, and I hate Communism. Do something about it. Ronald Reagan's instructions to his first assembled Cabinet.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Cletus For This Useful Post:

    Peter1469 (07-08-2019)

  6. #4
    Original Ranter
    Points: 224,098, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 62.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Mister D's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    396234
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    89,709
    Points
    224,098
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    17,740
    Thanked 33,176x in 23,561 Posts
    Mentioned
    910 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    I know Fritz Hahn. He is an idiot. This issue was addressed by the Council a couple of years ago. The town council of Taos tried to change the name of the park without public hearings. It blew up in their face.

    When General Carson relocated the Navajo to the Bosque, His scouts were primarily from Taos Pueblo and the Utes. The Northern Pueblos, the Utes and even the Jicarilla wanted the Navajo gone. They were raiders and slavers who preyed upon the Pueblos. Everyone thinks blankets and pottery when they think of the Navajo, but back then, they were a nasty bunch. Some of the loudest voices calling for their relocation were from other Indian groups.
    Very interesting. Thanks.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  7. #5
    Points: 101,795, Level: 77
    Level completed: 71%, Points required for next Level: 755
    Overall activity: 75.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Private Pickle's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    178009
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Rocky Mountain High
    Posts
    33,129
    Points
    101,795
    Level
    77
    Thanks Given
    6,289
    Thanked 9,470x in 6,937 Posts
    Mentioned
    192 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Neither. A product of his environment and opportunities.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

  8. #6
    Original Ranter
    Points: 520,170, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.9%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    425129
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    156,571
    Points
    520,170
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    91,715
    Thanked 76,105x in 51,496 Posts
    Mentioned
    2211 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    I know Fritz Hahn. He is an idiot. This issue was addressed by the Council a couple of years ago. The town council of Taos tried to change the name of the park without public hearings. It blew up in their face.

    When General Carson relocated the Navajo to the Bosque, His scouts were primarily from Taos Pueblo and the Utes. The Northern Pueblos, the Utes and even the Jicarilla wanted the Navajo gone. They were raiders and slavers who preyed upon the Pueblos. Everyone thinks blankets and pottery when they think of the Navajo, but back then, they were a nasty bunch. Some of the loudest voices calling for their relocation were from other Indian groups.
    Bravo, that is my point. I only hope that our modern hate America movement gets $#@!-blocked over this issue.
    Molon labe
    Please visit my blog http://thepoliticalforums.com/blogs/peter/
    (If a post link does not work, see the archives- it should work there.)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts


Critical Acclaim
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO