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Thread: Kit Carson, villain or hero?

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    Kit Carson, villain or hero?

    Kit Carson, villain or hero?

    This is an interesting article considering our present day tendency to judge historical figures with the #metoo and anti-history taint. American Indians, especially Navajo want to change the name of Kit Carson Memorial Park- they see him as a "Hitler" in his treatment of the Navajo in the United States decision to relocate them in the "long walk." The article points out that contemporary and later Navajo leaders and elders blamed certain Navajo and not Kit Carson for the final conflict with the US. Historically the Navajo saw everyone near them as prey. That included other tribes, Mexicans, and Americans. And lastly, Kit Carson treated the Navajo in accordance with the then laws of land warfare and much fairer than the Navajo dealt with their enemies.

    And remember the other local tribes helped the US root out the Navajo. Because they were their main victims.

    For many Americans, the name Kit Carson invokes several of the greatest elements of the American character: bravery, self-sufficiency, and the thrill of exploration. For some, Carson’s name stands for victory over hostile native tribes. But for one group of ethnic grievance activists in Taos, New Mexico, Carson represents racism and American evil. One local politician even drew a direct comparison between Carson and Hitler.

    Taos is the site of Kit Carson Memorial Park, where Carson is buried. The Taos Town Council recently voted to change the name of the Kit Carson Memorial Park to Red Willow Park. The council has since dropped the name change to Red Willow Park, but the council still plans on renaming the area of the park beyond Carson’s graveyard. But has anyone stopped to ask what Kit Carson actually did, or why he is being slandered?


    These questions are part of a deeper, fundamental question about the American identity. Should we feel guilty about the supposed historical injustice of “stealing” native land, or should we refuse to apologize for prevailing in mutual conflict?


    “[Kit Carson] was atrocious, an Indian killer,” said Taos council member Fritz Hahn. “We have got to heal the wreckage of the past, and Kit Carson is part of that.” Council member Judi Cantu posted on Facebook that having a park named after Kit Carson is as offensive as “naming a park in Israel after Adolfo [sic] Hitler.”

    The “wreckage” Hahn referred to is the “Long Walk,” a military operation whereby U.S. soldiers, with the help of several Indian tribes, removed the Navajo from Arizona and northwest New Mexico, then relocated them to an area in eastern New Mexico.

    Who are Kit Carson’s “People”?

    Council member Hahn, claiming to speak on behalf of a “Native American,” said “[s]he feels uncomfortable in the park, which is named after someone who egregiously hurt her people.” For such a person, the thought that “her people” may have hurt American people is beside the point. She has her racial loyalty, and that is the starting point for her worldview. By contrast, Kit Carson does not have an interest group advocating for his heritage and his accomplishments.


    Americans should regard Carson as an admirable, central figure in the settlement of the West. At the very least, a reasonable assessment of Carson would include a few essential facts: Carson was called upon to lead armed forces in a civilizational conflict that would paralyze modern men with dread. He did so with distinction and fairness, in the eyes of many. Simmons notes that Carson was appreciated during his life by “Indians, Mexicans and Americans” [8].


    Carson’s actions were at times forceful, but he acted in keeping with the established norms of military conduct during conflicts of his day. From a moral and practical standpoint, Carson’s treatment of the Navajo was far more humane than the manner in which the Navajo treated their neighbors and enemies. Given all of this, it is an Orwellian rewriting of our history for certain victim groups to slander Carson.


    One of Carson’s great-great-great-grand nieces, Terecita, summed up the essence of the man: “Those of them who treated him with kindness and respect, he did the same. And those of them who treated him with violence and disregard, he did the same.”
    Read the entire article at the link.
    Last edited by Peter1469; 07-08-2019 at 05:18 PM.
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    No, he was white, ergo he deserves to be dug up from his grave and fed to the hogs.

    How dare any of us attempt to justify any action committed by any white person ever.
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    I know Fritz Hahn. He is an idiot. This issue was addressed by the Council a couple of years ago. The town council of Taos tried to change the name of the park without public hearings. It blew up in their face.

    When General Carson relocated the Navajo to the Bosque, His scouts were primarily from Taos Pueblo and the Utes. The Northern Pueblos, the Utes and even the Jicarilla wanted the Navajo gone. They were raiders and slavers who preyed upon the Pueblos. Everyone thinks blankets and pottery when they think of the Navajo, but back then, they were a nasty bunch. Some of the loudest voices calling for their relocation were from other Indian groups.
    "All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void." Marbury Vs. Madison, 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176, (1803). "Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them." Miranda Vs. Arizona, 384 US 436 p. 491.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    I know Fritz Hahn. He is an idiot. This issue was addressed by the Council a couple of years ago. The town council of Taos tried to change the name of the park without public hearings. It blew up in their face.

    When General Carson relocated the Navajo to the Bosque, His scouts were primarily from Taos Pueblo and the Utes. The Northern Pueblos, the Utes and even the Jicarilla wanted the Navajo gone. They were raiders and slavers who preyed upon the Pueblos. Everyone thinks blankets and pottery when they think of the Navajo, but back then, they were a nasty bunch. Some of the loudest voices calling for their relocation were from other Indian groups.
    Very interesting. Thanks.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Neither. A product of his environment and opportunities.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    I know Fritz Hahn. He is an idiot. This issue was addressed by the Council a couple of years ago. The town council of Taos tried to change the name of the park without public hearings. It blew up in their face.

    When General Carson relocated the Navajo to the Bosque, His scouts were primarily from Taos Pueblo and the Utes. The Northern Pueblos, the Utes and even the Jicarilla wanted the Navajo gone. They were raiders and slavers who preyed upon the Pueblos. Everyone thinks blankets and pottery when they think of the Navajo, but back then, they were a nasty bunch. Some of the loudest voices calling for their relocation were from other Indian groups.
    Bravo, that is my point. I only hope that our modern hate America movement gets $#@!-blocked over this issue.
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