Back when the police used to serve and protect...

[Dr. Who]

Sometimes it's possible, and sometimes it's not. Every situation is different. I don't think cops should be forced to put their life on the line to save a knife wielding attacker. Why should they? Are you aware a knife wielding attacker can cover 21 feet before you can get your gun out and put shots on target? And that's if you're well trained.

I watch badge cam footage just about every day, and even when less lethal means are deployed, they don't always work. Here's one that was an extremely close call for the officers. They made every effort. What would you have them do?

Perhaps I'm not as tolerant as you are. There are a number of techniques for disarming a charging irrational person with a knife. Most of them involve stepping aside and using their momentum against them but it involves training and practice. As to the video you displayed, the officer engaging the perpetrator demonstrated absolutely no defensive skills whatsoever. That's pretty sad. What are they teaching these officers?

[Common]

Perhaps I'm not as tolerant as you are. There are a number of techniques for disarming a charging irrational person with a knife. Most of them involve stepping aside and using their momentum against them but it involves training and practice. As to the video you displayed, the officer engaging the perpetrator demonstrated absolutely no defensive skills whatsoever. That's pretty sad. What are they teaching these officers?

All sounds good on paper until you are the one that has to do it, and my my my how it all changes.

Back seat driving is just that

[Dr. Who]

It doesn't matter. You pull a weapon on an officer, they will shoot. They are not here to die for anything. They want to go home at the end of the day.
How bad do you wish the officer to be hurt. There are plenty of images available on the net to demonstrate what a knife would looks like and the amount of damage can be done. So, maybe it would have been better if one of the officers was permanently disabled or killed. Now there's a balance, right?

Contrary to your assumption, I don't want officers to be injured, I want them to be sufficiently trained that lethal force is not their only option. They are often paid more than military personnel and often not even marginally as well trained in non-lethal forms of self defense. The average lunatic with a knife is not a ninja and a police officer doesn't have to stand still and get stabbed. They should be better trained than mall cops and I've seen videos of mall cops disarming knife wielding lunatics actively trying to stab them. They didn't have guns to resort to. A quick review of the 2019 causes of death for police officers is a tie between being hit by vehicles or shot. Not one was stabbed to death.

[Dr. Who]

All sounds good on paper until you are the one that has to do it, and my my my how it all changes.

Back seat driving is just that

Perhaps so, but did you watch the video? All of those officers present and yet the only officer being targeted by the perp allowed the perp to get behind him trying to grab his gun. How did that happen and what were the other officers doing? Please explain this strategy where other officers just stand there with their guns trained and do nothing to interfere with the guy who is running. They couldn't run at him from the side or from behind?

[stjames1_53]

Perhaps so, but did you watch the video? All of those officers present and yet the only officer being targeted by the perp allowed the perp to get behind him trying to grab his gun. How did that happen and what were the other officers doing? Please explain this strategy where other officers just stand there with their guns trained and do nothing to interfere with the guy who is running. They couldn't run at him from the side or from behind?

You are armchair coaching. You weren't there. You like second guessing.

[countryboy]

Perhaps I'm not as tolerant as you are. There are a number of techniques for disarming a charging irrational person with a knife. Most of them involve stepping aside and using their momentum against them but it involves training and practice. As to the video you displayed, the officer engaging the perpetrator demonstrated absolutely no defensive skills whatsoever. That's pretty sad. What are they teaching these officers?

Oh brother, you have no idea what you are talking about. What's sad is, you favor getting officers killed over knife wielding mopes.

[countryboy]

Contrary to your assumption, I don't want officers to be injured, I want them to be sufficiently trained that lethal force is not their only option. They are often paid more than military personnel and often not even marginally as well trained in non-lethal forms of self defense. The average lunatic with a knife is not a ninja and a police officer doesn't have to stand still and get stabbed. They should be better trained than mall cops and I've seen videos of mall cops disarming knife wielding lunatics actively trying to stab them. They didn't have guns to resort to. A quick review of the 2019 causes of death for police officers is a tie between being hit by vehicles or shot. Not one was stabbed to death.

No, you want them to be killed attempting some side step Bruce Lee move.

[Dr. Who]

No, you want them to be killed attempting some side step Bruce Lee move.

Do you really think self-defense is some exotic asian art form reserved for TV personalities?

[stjames1_53]

Do you really think self-defense is some exotic asian art form reserved for TV personalities?

you seem to think so. You also seem to think all cops should only wound their targets.
look at it this way, If someone pulls a knife on me, I will hole them faster than they can think. Always aim DCM............

[Dr. Who]

you seem to think so. You also seem to think all cops should only wound their targets.
look at it this way, If someone pulls a knife on me, I will hole them faster than they can think. Always aim DCM............

I happen to think that lethal force should be the last resort not the first and that self-defense in the form of practical unarmed combat techniques when adequately learned and practiced would suffice in most cases where the attacker is not carrying a gun. Unfortunately, current police training emphasizes staying out of harm's way so much that “better to be judged by twelve than carried by six” has become the mantra and the reason for so many unarmed individuals being shot needlessly. Police officer's are being taught to be afraid and this affects how they interpret what they see, yet violent interactions with police officers are at an all time low:


"In percentage terms, officers were assaulted in about 0.09 percent of all interactions, were injured in some way in 0.02 percent of interactions, and were feloniously killed in 0.00008 percent of interactions. Adapting officer training to these statistics doesn’t minimize the very real risks that officers face, but it does help put those risks in perspective. "

"More comprehensive tactical training would also help prevent unnecessary uses of force. Instead of rushing in to confront someone, officers need to be taught that it is often preferable to take an oblique approach that protects them as they gather information or make contact from a safe distance. Relatedly, as I’ve written elsewhere, a temporary retreat—what officers call a “tactical withdrawal”—can, in the right circumstances, maintain safety while offering alternatives to deadly force."

"Officers must also be trained to think beyond the gun-belt. The pepper spray, baton, Taser, and gun that are so easily accessible to officers are meant to be tools of last resort, to be used when non-violent tactics fail or aren’t an option. By changing officer training, agencies could start to shift the culture of policing away from the “frontal assault” mindset and toward an approach that emphasizes preserving the lives that officers are charged with protecting. Earlier this year, officers took just that approach in Kalamazoo, Michigan, relying on tactics and communication rather than weaponry to deal with a belligerent man carrying a rifle. As a result, a 40-minute standoff ended with a handshake, not an ambulance. The Seattle Police Department offered an even more dramatic example in 1997, when they eventually ended an 11-hour standoff with a mentally ill man wielding a samurai sword by making creative use of a fire-hose and a ladder. The suspect was apprehended with only minor bruises, and no officers were injured."
https://www.theatlantic.com/national...rguson/383681/