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Thread: Living with mental disability is not easy.

  1. #151
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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    I don't know. Liberals have wanted courts to expand their views of mental illness and criminal culpability for a long time and courts seem to ignore them.

    It's a tough one. Clearly addiction and mental illness contribute to crime. But the first duty of the justice systems to protect society. I think drug court has a pretty good reputation , perhaps the same could be done for the mentally ill?
    Of course many of the crimes associated with addiction would decrease with legalization.

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  3. #152
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    Collateral Damage's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    It's a tough one. Clearly addiction and mental illness contribute to crime. But the first duty of the justice systems to protect society. I think drug court has a pretty good reputation , perhaps the same could be done for the mentally ill?
    Of course many of the crimes associated with addiction would decrease with legalization.
    Explain that to me ^^, since the addict would still need a method of paying for his needs, stealing from someone to pay for it would still be a crime.
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Well I have no choice but to take your argument seriously given the information and knowledge you have used to back up your opinion. Oh wait , you haven't done that at all, you just keep saying "bipolar" is invented when in fact it has been around forever and is a well documented mental illness that can effect all areas of someone's life. Can you find any credible professionals who share your opinion?

    Or look at it this way.Do you ever stay up working on something for three or four days? Do you have psychotic episodes sometimes? Do these things plus deep depression make it difficult for you to keep a job or a relationship or friends?
    I have stayed up for days to edit book. That's not what makes me bi-polar.
    Liberals are a clear and present danger to our nation
    Pick your enemies carefully.






  5. #154
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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collateral Damage View Post
    Explain that to me ^^, since the addict would still need a method of paying for his needs, stealing from someone to pay for it would still be a crime.

    Illegality drive the price up. The more illegal the substance the more it drives the price up. For this reason most alcoholics and tobacco addicts can afford their addiction through a job. Most heroin addicts cannot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Illegality drive the price up. The more illegal the substance the more it drives the price up. For this reason most alcoholics and tobacco addicts can afford their addiction through a job. Most heroin addicts cannot.
    Do some European cities have drug dispensaries?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    The research started again in 2006. Just like cannabis research has seen an explosion of projects this year, I expect the half dozen psychedelics will be a focal point for many large projects in 2020.

    Work with people who are dying of cancer may have led the way. Underground there are thousands of people who microdose every week.

    Yes. The first book is almost ready. Then comes a second book related to the first. The third book, which will be based partly on this research should be ready late this year. I am planning for November. The third book will be the most significant, from my perspective, of the three. While researching for the first two mentioned books I noted four recurring themes spread across dozens of books. I spent an hour googling for books already written and did not find any. It may not sell but it will be enormously meaningful to me.


    https://www.bhpalmbeach.com/recovery-articles/efficacy-abstinence-treatment-vs-harm-reduction/


    Just an update on researching Peter's information regarding harm reduction. I have had little time to research the European model however this article seems to take a fair look at what appears to be a jury is still out situation. It correctly points out that there are problems with obtaining realistic success rates for any drug treatment:The article compares total abstinence to Moderation Management. Definitions, investment in the outcome of the study , the time frame of the study, the self reporting nature of the data etc. cloud the idea of trying to tease out apple to apple success rates. I am for anything that helps addicts live a normal life. My guess at this time is that since we now largely use the term "alcohol use disorder" vs separating out alcohol abuse and alcoholism that the success rates with harm reduction techniques are largely driven by the abusers not the alcoholics. But it is merely a guess and I will continue to research when I have time. I would point out that despite MM being around for along time it was AA and the abstinence model that first brought hope to alcoholism treatment.
    The only way I can see a true cure is to rewire the brain, which may be where shrooms and rye mold come in. Fascinating stuff!

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  10. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Illegality drive the price up. The more illegal the substance the more it drives the price up. For this reason most alcoholics and tobacco addicts can afford their addiction through a job. Most heroin addicts cannot.
    And you feel heroin should be legalized to drive the prices down, so more addicts can afford their drug of choice? Do you know see a problem with that?
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison

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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCitizen View Post
    Do some European cities have drug dispensaries?
    I think there is at least one place that literally dispenses heroin only to be used on site. Maybe it was just a study

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    Quote Originally Posted by Collateral Damage View Post
    And you feel heroin should be legalized to drive the prices down, so more addicts can afford their drug of choice? Do you know see a problem with that?
    Nope. The war on drugs penalties and all has quite literally made it WORSE. I see that prohibition kills far more that it saves. The drug war has seen access increase not decrease and it's really about access because demand is a given.A heroin addict has to live on the fringe of society .often stealing, stripping, selling their body or dealing in order to afford to be an addict. But all tobacco and alcohol addicts need to do is have an ordinary job. Then the addict risk death virtually every time they shoot up? Why because the purity cannot be known BECAUSE the substance is illegal. I never used to feel that way , except about pot, until my daughter died. I had spent a lifetime believing in prohibition. So I did some research to channel my grief. And I found evidence that decriminialization works and makes things better. Portugal has been proving that for 20 years. But ZERO evidence that the war on drugs, harsh penalties, mandatory sentences etc have ever worked on the masses. I guess maybe it worked once when China tried to break their country out of the British Empire assisted opium addiction they were in centuries ago. They used draconian methods and without any reasonable doubt clause. This was once pointed out to me by another poster as the one time harsh drug laws made things better.
    Go ahead find me another example if you wish. I'll wait. And wait and wait and wait.
    The other thing I learned from that research was that much of what we think we know is wrong and much of what we have always believed is straight up bull$#@!!
    Last edited by donttread; 07-23-2019 at 06:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post


    https://www.bhpalmbeach.com/recovery-articles/efficacy-abstinence-treatment-vs-harm-reduction/


    Just an update on researching Peter's information regarding harm reduction. I have had little time to research the European model however this article seems to take a fair look at what appears to be a jury is still out situation. It correctly points out that there are problems with obtaining realistic success rates for any drug treatment:The article compares total abstinence to Moderation Management. Definitions, investment in the outcome of the study , the time frame of the study, the self reporting nature of the data etc. cloud the idea of trying to tease out apple to apple success rates. I am for anything that helps addicts live a normal life. My guess at this time is that since we now largely use the term "alcohol use disorder" vs separating out alcohol abuse and alcoholism that the success rates with harm reduction techniques are largely driven by the abusers not the alcoholics. But it is merely a guess and I will continue to research when I have time. I would point out that despite MM being around for along time it was AA and the abstinence model that first brought hope to alcoholism treatment.
    The only way I can see a true cure is to rewire the brain, which may be where shrooms and rye mold come in. Fascinating stuff!
    Originally AA focused on the really bad drunks. And there was little medical knowledge in the area of addition.
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