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Thread: A Marxist View of Capitalism

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    Have a smoothie. I recommend some vodka but I doubt it will help much.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    I would agree with you, but for two things - surplus AKA profit and surplus supply. Capitalism encourages the creation of more product than can be economically sold and often co-ops government in the process of overproducing ensuring that the government pay for the excess production and that the surplus that cannot be sold is generally destroyed. IOW people subsidize big business and hence the wealthy. It is also both wasteful and destructive of the environment. Alternatively, it demands that government protect that industry from competition. Either way it's not rational. It both wastes resources and/or ends up coming at the expense of someone, somewhere. Furthermore, the majority of the revenue from that surplus accrues to the smallest minority of human kind. It's unnatural. Even in a totally free market, the kind of economic disparity that currently exists would not. There is certainly no comparable situation in nature and nature should be the example of balance. It's not about totally equal outcomes, but about more equitable sharing of resources and more equitable valuation of labor.

    You have often promoted cooperative models of business, yet now you are against them. That is curious. What happened to your support for Valve? Don't you care for the overlap between libertarian and socialist business models?

    I presented to you Wolff's argument. And according to his argument, if capitalism is flawed then so too is socialism.

    Your response is to quote me but argue something else. Something else that is false and makes little sense. For if capitalism overproduces then so too does socialism for it is based on the same model. The only economic model that doesn't overproduce is the traditional model prevalent prior to mercantilism.

    Then you invent a strawman for what I have argued somewhere sometime else. I have not argued cooperative models, whatever those may be. I have from time to time pointed out that competition entails cooperation: In markets, just as in sports you must cooperate in order to compete in the game. Something wholly different than your strawman.

    Since you have no argument with Wolff or me, I take it you agree with my argument.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    There is nothing in socialist theory that advocates highly authoritarian/militaristic states nor does it advocate its imposition upon a population but rather an organic evolution toward a different economic model for example as is happening with Mondragon Corporation, a cooperative headquartered in Spain with current revenues of over 11.2B Euros, more than 140 production plants and 80,000 professionals across five continents.
    It is implicit in it. Socialism requires command and control. You have to take something to give it to someone else. It will 100% of the time become a tryanny.

    Free Markets =Free People
    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining"----Fletcher in The Outlaw Josey Wales

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    nathanbforrest45 (07-23-2019)

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    "Capitalism" does not over produce. Manufacturers of various products may over produce but those companies soon go out of business, to be replaced by more efficient units. Furthermore, capitalism does not require "government" to survive, in fact its the exact opposite. Capitalism does require, what any society requires, a stable environment, free from interference by whim of the looters. Under a truly capitalist system monopolies can never develop for long because there will always be alternatives if its a truly free market. It is only under socialism and government ownership that competition, and therefore alternatives, is forbidden.

    I cannot understand why any man would willingly sell himself into the bondage of the collective. As for me, like John Galt: I shall live for no man, and I shall ask for no man to live for me


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    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Ackbar View Post
    It is implicit in it. Socialism requires command and control. You have to take something to give it to someone else. It will 100% of the time become a tryanny.

    Free Markets =Free People

    Indeed, that is a major difference between capitalism and socialism that Dr. Who's Professor Wolff does not address. Under capitalism the capital and profits are owned and managed by private owners who make decisions best for their interests, while under socialism the capital and profits are owned and managed by the collective who for the history of mankind and always delegated authority to a few, the State.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45 View Post
    "Capitalism" does not over produce. Manufacturers of various products may over produce but those companies soon go out of business, to be replaced by more efficient units. Furthermore, capitalism does not require "government" to survive, in fact its the exact opposite. Capitalism does require, what any society requires, a stable environment, free from interference by whim of the looters. Under a truly capitalist system monopolies can never develop for long because there will always be alternatives if its a truly free market. It is only under socialism and government ownership that competition, and therefore alternatives, is forbidden.

    I cannot understand why any man would willingly sell himself into the bondage of the collective. As for me, like John Galt: I shall live for no man, and I shall ask for no man to live for me



    It's actually socialism that overproduces as Marx promised it would lead to increased productivity.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Richard D. Wolff thinks it can if one doesn't blame the economic theory on psychopathic politicians.
    I heard his talk on KPFA.

    More later

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