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Thread: Worst defeat in US military history?

  1. #11
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    I would wake up screaming in a cold sweat if i had to go fight with a slow to load smoothbore that would not function in the rain and was only accurate to less than 50 yards or so.
    ...and then had to fight with it against people who would enjoy using my balls for bait.

    I think I would have hooked up with a camp follower and hauled ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    A lack of resolve is what cost us the Vietnam War.
    An unwillingness to see thousands of young American lives squandered on an imperialist misadventure is not a lack of resolve, it's wisdom.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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    Anyway, the worst defeat in US history is either Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. But the defeat was not due to a lack of resolve or commitment on the part of the American people or the boots on the ground. Rather, it was due to the lies, the myopia, and the outright derangement of the US politicians and generals who started and managed the wars.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Anyway, the worst defeat in US history is either Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. But the defeat was not due to a lack of resolve or commitment on the part of the American people or the boots on the ground. Rather, it was due to the lies, the myopia, and the outright derangement of the US politicians and generals who started and managed the wars.
    Vietnam was not fought to win. It was a misapplication of the containment theory in the first place. In the second, US political leaders believed it was necessary to go to let our European allies know that we wouldn't abandon them. If that worked initially, I expect our leaving Vietnam the way we did fed into that fear.

    The major combat operation phases of Afghanistan and Iraq were stunning successes. The mission creep to nation-building was a total failure in Afghanistan, and a likely failure in Iraq (the Iraqi government still doesn't have is $#@! together and may get its ass handed back to them by ISIL again because of it).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Vietnam was not fought to win. It was a misapplication of the containment theory in the first place. In the second, US political leaders believed it was necessary to go to let our European allies know that we wouldn't abandon them. If that worked initially, I expect our leaving Vietnam the way we did fed into that fear.

    The major combat operation phases of Afghanistan and Iraq were stunning successes. The mission creep to nation-building was a total failure in Afghanistan, and a likely failure in Iraq (the Iraqi government still doesn't have is $#@! together and may get its ass handed back to them by ISIL again because of it).
    Well, before we can assess the severity of US defeats, we must first define what it means to win or lose. And as far as I'm concerned, the US loses the second it decides to wage a war that has no nexus to our common defense. Vietnam and Iraq are two such wars, meaning every dollar and every life that was expended in furtherance of those wars was a loss. So even if particular military operations occurring within the context of those wars could be deemed tactical successes, they could never bring about a greater strategic victory for the simple fact that they were unnecessary wars.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Well, before we can assess the severity of US defeats, we must first define what it means to win or lose. And as far as I'm concerned, the US loses the second it decides to wage a war that has no nexus to our common defense. Vietnam and Iraq are two such wars, meaning every dollar and every life that was expended in furtherance of those wars was a loss. So even if particular military operations occurring within the context of those wars could be deemed tactical successes, they could never bring about a greater strategic victory for the simple fact that they were unnecessary wars.
    I didn't use that definition of win above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    I didn't use that definition of win above.
    Right, if we use your definition of a win, then those wars were wins. My only point is that others may have different definitions of what constitutes a "win" or a "defeat", which is why we need to define our terms before a reasonable discussion of such can ensue. Too often, political discussions unravel because the participants aren't speaking the same language.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    US political leaders believed it was necessary to go to let our European allies know that we wouldn't abandon them. If that worked initially, I expect our leaving Vietnam the way we did fed into that fear.
    What allies are you talking about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    An unwillingness to see thousands of young American lives squandered on an imperialist misadventure is not a lack of resolve, it's wisdom.
    Sadly, even more SouthEast Asian civilians died by US Military action -- about a million.

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    The Battle of Yorktown was sort of a success for America. But now USA is much worse off then Australia, Canada, NZ. Maybe the victory in Revolutionary War was in the long run a defeat?

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