Why Trump Is Not a Fascist

[Captain Obvious]

The Nazi's were not socialists. That the term "socialists" is in the proper party name confuses the remedial crowd around here. It didn't mean socialist as traditionally defined.

They were totalitarian, pro-German people, white nationalist. They killed or jailed communists and socialists.

And generally classified as far right. That a fringe minority want to redefine Nazi's as leftists or socialists is cute, but wholly inaccurate.

[Mister D]

The Nazi's were not socialists. That the term "socialists" is in the proper party name confuses the remedial crowd around here. It didn't mean socialist as traditionally defined.

They were totalitarian, pro-German people, white nationalist. They killed or jailed communists and socialists.

And generally classified as far right. That a fringe minority want to redefine Nazi's as leftists or socialists is cute, but wholly inaccurate.

IMO, the entire discussion is ridiculous. 20th Europe was a different political context and neither fascism or socialism made any real headway in the USA. They were always fringe. That said, it is true that this goofy debate has its origin on the left which can't resist referring to everyone and everything they dislike as "fascist".

[Dr. Who]

It is rather telling how easily leftists made the ideological transition to fascism and vice versa.

Perhaps not so surprising when you consider the prevailing economic times and the fact that most people are not particularly political. Most care whether they are eating and whether they can pay their bills. They tend to be ripe for any propaganda that puts the blame on X or Y and offers the solution to all of their economic woes. If it doesn't all go to plan they turn to the next political messiah.

[Captain Obvious]

IMO, the entire discussion is ridiculous. 20th Europe was a different political context and neither fascism or socialism made any real headway in the USA. They were always fringe. That said, it is true that this goofy debate has its origin on the left which can't resist referring to everyone and everything they dislike as "fascist".

And some on the right, I totally get that and it comes off as a redefining pissing contest and that's never productive.

I kind of agree with your first point but a lot of socialist/communist ideology was basically being drafted at that point in time, the same ideology that many leftist States still adhere to to a large degree.

[Mister D]

Perhaps not so surprising when you consider the prevailing economic times and the fact that most people are not particularly political. Most care whether they are eating and whether they can pay their bills. They tend to be ripe for any propaganda that puts the blame on X or Y and offers the solution to all of their economic woes. If it doesn't all go to plan they turn to the next political messiah.

I'm talking primarily about intellectuals and it's not surprising at all. The two ideologies do overlap to some extent. Nazism, however, I would say is a special case due to the heavy emphasis on racist ideology. Race played the same role of class played in communism.

[Captain Obvious]

I'm talking primarily about intellectuals and it's not surprising at all. The two ideologies do overlap to some extent. Nazism, however, I would say is a special case due to the heavy emphasis on racist ideology. Race played the same role of class played in communism.

Interesting spin, but I don't disagree.

The totalitarian, centralized aspect of Nazism was really to empower the State and further the agenda. Pro-German and race were front and center.

[Mister D]

And some on the right, I totally get that and it comes off as a redefining pissing contest and that's never productive.

I kind of agree with your first point but a lot of socialist/communist ideology was basically being drafted at that point in time, the same ideology that many leftist States still adhere to to a large degree.

The right does it a lot now but in fairness they didn't start this trend.

Leftists states, technically speaking, are few and far in between at this point but market oriented welfare states abound.

[Mister D]

Interesting spin, but I don't disagree.

The totalitarian, centralized aspect of Nazism was really to empower the State and further the agenda. Pro-German and race were front and center.

With the exception of your point about race that's also true of every single communist and socialist state without exception. I agree that racist imperialism and everything it entailed was the ultimate agenda of the Third Reich. Or rather...that was Hitler's agenda. The Nazi movement had a surprising number of revolutionaries and rabble rousers but Hitler's goals were what really mattered by the mid 30s.

[Dr. Who]

IMO, the entire discussion is ridiculous. 20th Europe was a different political context and neither fascism or socialism made any real headway in the USA. They were always fringe. That said, it is true that this goofy debate has its origin on the left which can't resist referring to everyone and everything they dislike as "fascist".

Actually, while Trump isn't a fascist per se, he has a tendency to indulge in fascist-like rhetoric which invites the perception that he is a fascist. His condemnation of the media and his hyperbole about third world nations, migrants, the DOJ, as well as his protectionist trade policies and attempts at over the top nationalism all have a certain fascist flavor. Even his use of his personal propaganda machine - Twitter, adds to the effect.

[Captain Obvious]

With the exception of your point about race that's also true of every single communist and socialist state without exception. I agree that racist imperialism and everything it entailed was the ultimate agenda of the Third Reich. Or rather...that was Hitler's agenda. The Nazi movement had a surprising number of revolutionaries and rabble rousers but Hitler's goals were what really mattered by the mid 30s.

As did most of the rest of the world seemingly.