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Thread: CCW killed by active shooters partner

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenjaminO View Post
    Yep. Next it will be a cop shooting a "good guy with a gun".
    Like an armed teacher in a school (one of the dumber ideas I've heard).
    It has happened. It's also a possibility a person has to take into consideration. But do you think this negates the times when a CCW holder has been able to stop a shooter? Not everyone is geared to do what needs to be done in these situations, the guard in the Parkland shooting is proof of that.

    Interesting that you feel teachers should not be armed, if they so choose. Those that would choose to do so, already have their CCW in life outside of school, it just expands it, if they so choose. No one needs to know who is or isn't carrying, just like a day on the sidewalk, you have (or should not have) any idea who is carrying or not. And that helps, because, does the bad guy really want to take that chance?

    "gun free zones' are like shooting ducks.... you know that no one is going to shoot back, so easy targets.
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison

  2. #12

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    [QUOTE=Standing Wolf;2659302]The possibility/danger of being shot by an accomplice hadn't occurred to me, to be honest. I guess because we've been conditioned to think of these mass shooter types as being loners. [quote]


    Always assume there is a secondary threat until you have completed a thorough scan and are fairly certain there is not.

    I've always said that the first thing you want to do after successfully putting down one of those people is to put your own gun away.

    Put your gun away ONLY after you have completed your scan and are sure there is no secondary threat. One of the cardinal rules... Always Holster Reluctantly.

    I can think of one instance - and there have probably been more - where an innocent CCW was killed by responding police just for being in the wrong place with a visible weapon. But not only is the accomplice danger something to consider, along with the possibility of being mistaken for the shooter by the police, if you are not the only CCW in the crowd how publicly do you want to be brandishing a firearm in that situation? Another CCW hears shots, sees people panicking, and there you are with your pistol in your hand. We all walk around with this illusion that everybody can see "Good Guy" written all over us, but an illusion is what that is.
    That is a risk. With the cops, the best and really only thing you can do is immediately do whatever they tell you to do, no matter how absurd it may seem. Something that may help with rest is returning your pistol to what some people call the "Sur" position. (Silly name). In that position, the pistol is ready for immediate deployment against a threat, but poses no threat to anyone in the crowd. It is a great scan position and is much, much better than the "low ready" position most shooters use.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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    No, its far better to do nothing and get shot because you are doing nothing.

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    A lot more plain clothes / undercover cops have been killed by responding police officers than carry conceal citizens.

    The people who freeze with fear over this are not carry conceal caliber.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    That is a risk. With the cops, the best and really only thing you can do is immediately do whatever they tell you to do, no matter how absurd it may seem. Something that may help with rest is returning your pistol to what some people call the "Sur" position. (Silly name). In that position, the pistol is ready for immediate deployment against a threat, but poses no threat to anyone in the crowd. It is a great scan position and is much, much better than the "low ready" position most shooters use.
    As twitchy as so many cops seem to be these days, you could probably stick the gun up your own butt and one of them might perceive you as a threat and fire a warning shot through your face. I understand the possibility of another threat popping up, but I still maintain that the only safe position for you to be in when the police arrive is one in which you DON'T have a gun in your hand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    As twitchy as so many cops seem to be these days, you could probably stick the gun up your own butt and one of them might perceive you as a threat and fire a warning shot through your face. I understand the possibility of another threat popping up, but I still maintain that the only safe position for you to be in when the police arrive is one in which you DON'T have a gun in your hand.

    Without doubt, that is the best option, but it isn't going to always be an option. You just have to trust that the police are going to be properly trained and calm enough to follow that training before they shoot.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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    Is it just me or does anyone else think Safety, BenjaminO and Alexa are gloating that a concerned citizen was gunned down while trying to save other citizens.

    The fact is multiple shoots in a mass shooting is an anomaly. Most of these mass shootings are carried out by a single shooter so the fact this shooter had an partner was out of the norm. The citizen trying to save others should be considered a hero, not some ignorant hillbilly. He did what 99% of the rest of us would not do, run into danger rather than away from it. Did his death stop the carnage after he was shot? How many ccw citizens have been gunned down in similar circumstances vs being able to stop the shooter?

    Shame on all of those who believe the best course of action is to sit down and wait to be gunned down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45 View Post
    The fact is multiple shoots in a mass shooting is an anomaly. Most of these mass shootings are carried out by a single shooter so the fact this shooter had an partner was out of the norm. The citizen trying to save others should be considered a hero, not some ignorant hillbilly. He did what 99% of the rest of us would not do, run into danger rather than away from it. Did his death stop the carnage after he was shot? How many ccw citizens have been gunned down in similar circumstances vs being able to stop the shooter?

    Shame on all of those who believe the best course of action is to sit down and wait to be gunned down.

    Well spoken.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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    [QUOTE=Cletus;2659315][QUOTE=Standing Wolf;2659302]The possibility/danger of being shot by an accomplice hadn't occurred to me, to be honest. I guess because we've been conditioned to think of these mass shooter types as being loners.


    Always assume there is a secondary threat until you have completed a thorough scan and are fairly certain there is not.




    Put your gun away ONLY after you have completed your scan and are sure there is no secondary threat. One of the cardinal rules... Always Holster Reluctantly.



    That is a risk. With the cops, the best and really only thing you can do is immediately do whatever they tell you to do, no matter how absurd it may seem. Something that may help with rest is returning your pistol to what some people call the "Sur" position. (Silly name). In that position, the pistol is ready for immediate deployment against a threat, but poses no threat to anyone in the crowd. It is a great scan position and is much, much better than the "low ready" position most shooters use.
    There are many positions at the ready, along with the sur position there is the sul, which I personally think is worthless and dangerous. Theres a modified low ready that is not acceptable with Law Enforcement.

    Compressed ready and Temple were never accepted by Law enforcement they are both dangerous imho

    We and remember im outdated, used the High Ready position
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    Id like to add something here to maybe add some clarity. You cannot compare a citizen with a CCW to trained police.

    The Citizen most likely did not know to stay at the ready, he never learned it. Common sense of course if applied would have made him do so.

    Police do not stand down until they area is cleared, in a mass shooting situation that does not come quick. If a shooter is down they actively seek other shooters and do not stand down or should I say should not, until the entire area is cleared and the injured have been secured.

    A mass shooting is the most stressful scarey situation to be in, no matter how much training you have. You have to worry about many things at once, identify the shooter do not err and shoot a civilian, watch you back, a myriad of thoughts and emotion and thats if your trained or not.

    I believe the CCW just didnt know
    Last edited by Common; 08-06-2019 at 08:46 PM.
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