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Thread: A balanced piece on incarceration in America

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    A balanced piece on incarceration in America

    https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2019.html


    While this piece acknowledges that many Americans are incarcerated for drugs and even drug possession at any given time ending prohibition would still leave a massive problem with our incarceration system. Personally I don't think it speaks enough to the impact of drug illegality on other crime, it does point out that the problem is even deeper than that. And that social programming ( in my view best run by the states and communities) can help.

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    I really do think the drug possession or drug usage crimes should be ended. If a druggie harms or steals, then he should be charged with those crimes, but possessing or using drugs? I don't agree with that.

    As far as letting them out without paying bail -- I don't like that idea too much.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    You were a little surprised, huh? I've posted this data for you no less than three times and it's great to know you actually read the responses to your comments. What it shows is that our prisons are not stuffed full of kids who got caught with a joint. In fact, they're not full of drug offenders at all who make up a small minority of the inmate population. How many times have I told you this?

    Anyway, what you mean by "incarcerated for drugs" is incarcerated for drug trafficking and distribution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    I really do think the drug possession or drug usage crimes should be ended. If a druggie harms or steals, then he should be charged with those crimes, but possessing or using drugs? I don't agree with that.

    As far as letting them out without paying bail -- I don't like that idea too much.
    Yes, part of any addicts path to recovery is accepting responsibility. Not for their use, but for it's consequences. However, ending prohibition would also decrease the crimes related to affording the increased price of drugs. It would probably limit prostitution considerably
    Bail tends to be a huge tool for differential enforcement. It does have it's place but it rarely limits the rich.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    I really do think the drug possession or drug usage crimes should be ended. If a druggie harms or steals, then he should be charged with those crimes, but possessing or using drugs? I don't agree with that.

    As far as letting them out without paying bail -- I don't like that idea too much.
    A very tiny minority of repeat offenders are in for simple possession. "Drug" offenses are typically trafficking and distribution.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    You were a little surprised, huh? I've posted this data for you no less than three times and it's great to know you actually read the responses to your comments. What it shows is that our prisons are not stuffed full of kids who got caught with a joint. In fact, they're not full of drug offenders at all who make up a small minority of the inmate population. How many times have I told you this?

    Anyway, what you mean by "incarcerated for drugs" is incarcerated for drug trafficking and distribution.
    Do you operate heavy equipment? Because you sure are a cherry picker. It openly acknowledges that the federal system in particular still hands out harsh penalties for possession. Also as anti-prohibitionist I don't think dealers should be in jail either, unless they knowingly deal deadly fillers. It's as though the state and localities don't want to incarcerate small time drug offenders so the feds swoop in and do!
    Having said all that I am acknowledging that there is more to be changed than just drug laws. Show some humility and admit that at least at the federal level not incarcerating small time drug offenders would be a damn good start. Or not, it's up to you of course.
    Also they mentioned property crime but very little about white collar crime. Odd don't you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    A very tiny minority of repeat offenders are in for simple possession. "Drug" offenses are typically trafficking and distribution.

    You mean like Segram's and RJ Reynolds executives sit on town boards for? That kind of distribution?

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    You mean like Segram's and RJ Reynolds executives sit on town boards for? That kind of distribution?
    No, I mean like organized crime and street gangs. Nice deflection though.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Do you operate heavy equipment? Because you sure are a cherry picker. It openly acknowledges that the federal system in particular still hands out harsh penalties for possession. Also as anti-prohibitionist I don't think dealers should be in jail either, unless they knowingly deal deadly fillers. It's as though the state and localities don't want to incarcerate small time drug offenders so the feds swoop in and do!
    Having said all that I am acknowledging that there is more to be changed than just drug laws. Show some humility and admit that at least at the federal level not incarcerating small time drug offenders would be a damn good start. Or not, it's up to you of course.
    Also they mentioned property crime but very little about white collar crime. Odd don't you think?
    1. The category of "Possession" includes possession with intent to distribute. IOW, drug dealing.
    2. Federal prisons account for a small minority of the overall prison population.
    3. Whether or not you believe drug dealers should be in prison or not is irrelevant. Inmates in for drug offenses of any kind are a small minority.

    Now you know the facts but you will repeat the same bull$#@! day after day. It doesn't matter how much evidence to the contrary crosses your path. You're emotionally committed to bad information.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    No, I mean like organized crime and street gangs. Nice deflection though.

    Show me the difference? If there is any it is only caused by prohibition.

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