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Thread: Trump and Republicans Pushing Gun Control

  1. #451
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    testsubjectalpha's Avatar Senior Member
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    wolf, you are assuming criminals play by the rules. they don't.


    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Every day in the big city lots of gang members are arrested and charged with being in possession of a firearm they didn't buy legally; many, if convicted of that charge, will go to prison. If there were no background checks, buying one illegally would obviously not be a crime. What was that you said about background checks not accomplishing anything?

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    stjames1_53's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Every day in the big city lots of gang members are arrested and charged with being in possession of a firearm they didn't buy legally; many, if convicted of that charge, will go to prison. If there were no background checks, buying one illegally would obviously not be a crime. What was that you said about background checks not accomplishing anything?
    a background check after the fact is useless.
    What you are saying is that if I don't get one, I'll be a criminal.
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

  3. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Requiring you to fill out a piece of paper and wait five minutes for clearance is "punishment"? No offense, but just how sheltered has your life been?
    Odd, how that I was killing people in a foreign country required no background check, but I need one to defend my home or person in public.
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

  4. #454
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    Standing Wolf's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by testsubjectalpha View Post
    wolf, you are assuming criminals play by the rules. they don't.
    How do you get that I'm assuming that, based on what I wrote?

    With background checks in place, more than 100,000 individuals every year who, at least according to the law, shouldn't be armed were not permitted to buy a gun. Unless you believe that letting a convicted murderer or a certified nutcase purchase a firearm is a good idea, why would you think that background checks are a bad idea?
    “Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

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  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    a background check after the fact is useless.
    What you are saying is that if I don't get one, I'll be a criminal.
    What I'm saying is that being in possession of a gun they obtained illegally is another charge that can be added in order to put a bad guy away for more years.
    “Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    Odd, how that I was killing people in a foreign country required no background check, but I need one to defend my home or person in public.
    I'm pretty sure you were given a pretty good background check before the military even qualified you for enlistment.
    “Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

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    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Do you know that more than half a million guns are stolen every single year in America and they all end up in the hands of criminals? They don't evaporate after one year so that means that in every five years there are 2.5 million more guns in criminal hands - in 10 years that's 5 million guns in 15 years that's 7.5 million guns and growing. The violent criminal population is about 3.35% of the overall population or approximately 10,961,200 people today based on the current population of 327.5M people. Over the last 20 years alone there have been enough gun thefts to arm every single violent criminal and you wonder why the number of homicides keeps growing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vi..._United_States
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_..._United_States
    https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-t...es-statistics/

    When they stop shooting at each other and start shooting at you, there will be an epiphany.
    This is a powerful argument for going armed everywhere.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    Rather, any one who can lawfully purchase a firearm, can buy one,legally. Some cannot not, legally.
    Legally, you;re correct. Still, anyone can buy a gun.
    Liberals are a clear and present danger to our nation
    Pick your enemies carefully.






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  11. #459

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    What I'm saying is that being in possession of a gun they obtained illegally is another charge that can be added in order to put a bad guy away for more years.
    I have mixed feelings on the issue of background checks. I understand the rationale behind them and the desire to keep them out of the hands of people who have an increased likelihood of using them illegally. HOWEVER, it is without doubt an infringement on the citizen's right to keep and bear arms.

    I think anyone who is protected by the US Constitution should be able to purchase a firearm, regardless of past transgressions. I think what should happen in place of denying someone a constitutional right because he MIGHT commit a crime, it would be better to make the commission of a crime with a firearm carry a very severe sentence. I don't like the idea of denying someone a right because of something he did for which he has already paid his debt to society.

    With freedom comes risk. The only way to reduce or eliminate that risk is to take away freedom. I think anyone who has committed a crime, been caught, tried, convicted and served his sentence to the satisfaction of society, should have restoration of his constitutional rights. I might be comfortable with the idea of a check to see if the purchaser is still on probation/parole because then he is still serving his sentence and has not yet fulfilled his obligations, but once he has, he should be given a clean slate.

    What someone did 10 or 20 years ago should not be used to assume he is going to do it again tomorrow.

    If someone has been adjudicated mentally incompetent, he has been determined to be unable to make the decisions necessary to interact with society without assistance. That opens up a whole new can of worms for discussion.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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  13. #460
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    Standing Wolf's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    I have mixed feelings on the issue of background checks. I understand the rationale behind them and the desire to keep them out of the hands of people who have an increased likelihood of using them illegally. HOWEVER, it is without doubt an infringement on the citizen's right to keep and bear arms.
    Just as reasonable exceptions exist with all the other rights our Constitution recognizes, I believe that reasonable rules and limits can be placed on our exercise of the 2nd Amendment. Of course we can disagree on what is and is not reasonable; your citing the case of the "domestic violence" offender comes to mind. Local laws keeping guns out of the hands of individuals who take certain prescription medications, noted in another recent thread, are another point of contention. Nevertheless, the Second is no more untouchable, if we're all being sane and honest about it, than any of the other rights that we have and value. The First Amendment is, in many instances, not a defense against a charge of slander or libel, nor does it permit some of the more "colorful" religious practices to go unpunished.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    I think anyone who is protected by the US Constitution should be able to purchase a firearm, regardless of past transgressions. I think what should happen in place of denying someone a constitutional right because he MIGHT commit a crime, it would be better to make the commission of a crime with a firearm carry a very severe sentence. I don't like the idea of denying someone a right because of something he did for which he has already paid his debt to society. ...
    As you may remember, my own favorite proposal in order to reduce the incidence of gun-related violence is to GREATLY increase such penalties.

    Hey, I'd comment on the rest of your post, but somebody just told me there's cake in the break room...so, later!
    “Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

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