Do you have a guaranteed pension?

[Peter1469]

As a taxpayer it is not my problem.

It will be if the government bails them out.

Even the PBGC (see post 2) will need to be bailed out, although at 30 cents on the dollar.

[FindersKeepers]

Looks like we are all $#@!ed!!

https://start.att.net/news/read/arti...tegory/finance

I'm not surprised.

Being in business for ourselves, we knew from the start that we would have to save and invest for our retirement. Now, I never plan to retire -- to me, retiring is akin to starting on the path to death -- but at least I'm comfortable in the knowledge that the steps I've taken throughout my working life will ensure that I do not face financial uncertainty in the future.

[FindersKeepers]

It will be if the government bails them out.

Even the PBGC (see post 2) will need to be bailed out, although at 30 cents on the dollar.

They better not bail them out.

[Common]

Theres alot of callous right wing Rhetoric about Pensions but private pensions were screwed over by Corporations, simply because they did not want to pay for them and wanted that money to be added to their Profits and bonus.

What @MisterVeritis totally overlooks in his callous view of Corporations dont have to give you a pension nor does the govt have to make up for it, is that the taxpayers will pay in the end to care for those that have no income anyway.

The prudent thing to do for everyone was not to allow corporations to shred THEIR responsibility and screw taxpayers.
They big lie by big corporate american was we cant afford it. BULL$#@! they just didnt want to pay it. The answer to them should have been Ok if you cant afford it close your doors. NONE of them would have closed

When all corporations successully screw their employees they will also be screwing the govt and all taxpayers for THEIR personal gain.

Corporations successfully began the screwing of their employees when they said were going tto put you all into these new 401Ks and we are going to MATCH you dollar for dollar just like your pensions AND the stockmarket historically will make you far more money, most will be millionaires time over. That was the big BULL$#@! STORY.

They paid half just long enough to screw you out of your pension, then it was WE CANT AFFORD TO PAY HALF, so they dropped it to 20% then 10% now most pay nothing.

The proof that 401ks SUCK is Enron and Worldcom whos CEOs and hotshots made hundreds of millions and their employees lost everything their entire 401ks were wiped out and people that had been retired 15 yrs suddenly had no income.

The govt allowed it to happen, some people CHEERED people getting screwed out of their pensions. All taxpayers will pay for it eventually and the Corporate Ceos will pocket the billions

[Retirednsmilin308]

Looks like we are all $#@!ed!!

https://start.att.net/news/read/arti...tegory/finance

I am under no illusion my monthly deposits are guaranteed.
Though they are reasonably safer than most.
Once Congress starts taking away disabled veteran's deposits, they have pretty much killed any recruiting for our armed forces.

Then our military will be nothing but forced conscripts, which generally are the worst troops on the planet.
Only militias are worse.

[DGUtley]

Theres alot of callous right wing Rhetoric about Pensions but private pensions were screwed over by Corporations, simply because they did not want to pay for them and wanted that money to be added to their Profits and bonus.

No. As life expectancy and the baby boomer generations aged increased in size, the business world moved from defined benefit to defined contributions. Not to pocket the "profits and bonus" but to survive. A lot of them didn't survive and those obligations were dumped onto the PBGC.

What @MisterVeritis totally overlooks in his callous view of Corporations dont have to give you a pension nor does the govt have to make up for it, is that the taxpayers will pay in the end to care for those that have no income anyway.

So... we should force corporations to give pensions?

The prudent thing to do for everyone was not to allow corporations to shred THEIR responsibility and screw taxpayers. They big lie by big corporate american was we cant afford it. BULL$#@! they just didnt want to pay it. The answer to them should have been Ok if you cant afford it close your doors. NONE of them would have closed.

Many did close their doors, hence the PBGC.

When all corporations successully screw their employees they will also be screwing the govt and all taxpayers for THEIR personal gain. Corporations successfully began the screwing of their employees when they said were going tto put you all into these new 401Ks and we are going to MATCH you dollar for dollar just like your pensions AND the stockmarket historically will make you far more money, most will be millionaires time over. That was the big BULL$#@! STORY.

No. Quite the contrary. A 401K actually gives you protection and options -- even if your employer doesn't match you. You have your money, invested as you direct. With your defined benefit contribution you have no guarantees other than what the PBGC doles out. The 401K is a far better option and deal for the employee. Invest conservatively.

They paid half just long enough to screw you out of your pension, then it was WE CANT AFFORD TO PAY HALF, so they dropped it to 20% then 10% now most pay nothing. The proof that 401ks SUCK is Enron and Worldcom whos CEOs and hotshots made hundreds of millions and their employees lost everything their entire 401ks were wiped out and people that had been retired 15 yrs suddenly had no income. The govt allowed it to happen, some people CHEERED people getting screwed out of their pensions. All taxpayers will pay for it eventually and the Corporate Ceos will pocket the billions

That's not proof of 401K's sucking - Through the Enron 401(k) retirement plan, employees chose to put much of their savings in Enron shares, and the company made contributions in company stock as well. But around the time Enron disclosed serious financial problems it was too late. That's a standard rule -- never put your money in your own company. Greed got the better of them. That's not proof of anything other than illegal conduct and greed. Remember, including the Great Depression and Great Recession the average annual return for the SP 500 is approximately 10% over the last 100 years. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...urn-sp-500.asp -- since it went to 500 stocks it's 8%. Don't be greedy be smart.

I've told my daughters -- pour money into your 401K's, talk to our broker about which funds to pick and have him bill me for the advice. They will be multimillionaires when they're my age. If they had defined benefit plans, they would not. God Bless whoever invented the 401K and convinced the government to allow us to put money into our 401K on a pre-tax basis.

[Common]

First of all I believe you are wrong, about your first assumption that the moved to defined contributions, they REMOVED their contributions and financial responsibility completely by moving people into 401ks which are a RISK and stopped their contributions.
Which in effect cut their employees pension benefit in half because prior the employer matched the employees contribution

I never said we should force corporations to give pensions, I said we need to disallow corporations from just dropping their portion of the pension obligation that they promised their employees on hire and stopping peoples pensions who have been in them for years, who where hired with the belief.

No. Quite the contrary. A 401K actually gives you protection and options -- even if your employer doesn't match you. You have your money, invested as you direct. With your defined benefit contribution you have no guarantees other than what the PBGC doles out. The 401K is a far better option and deal for the employee. Invest conservatively.

That is a play on words that is incorrect, by a corporation putting you in a 401k and dropping their contributions they are in effect stopping your pension and ending their entire financial responsibility, thats screwing their pensioners out of paying their half

401ks are not all guaranteed ask enron and worldcom employees and if and when you are ready to retire and the market is up or down makes your pension not guaranteed and unstable. You lose being vested in your pension.

There are those that are all for corporations sticking it in their workers ass so they can pocket all that money. Others believe that corporations should be forced to live up to their responsibility and promise they made to employees.

If they change their hiring policy and tell new employees we OFFER NO PENSION thats fine and then the employee has a choice. They should not have the right to stop pensions and their responsibility to pay into that pension as promised until they have to shutter up.

Employees make the money for any company or corporation they fully provide a paid service to their employers.
This nonesense that investors come before employees and have all the rights and employees have none is WRONG. The employees invested years and many times decades to that company they have their lives invested in that company and DESERVE fair treatment and fair treatment to me is a corporation living up to its responsibility until everyone has to get screwed.

[Hoosier8]

When the company I worked for gave the option to switch to a 401K I jumped on it and it will pan out nicely for me now even if there is a big dip in stocks.

The Delphi workers lost their pension in 2009 and are still in the courts fighting it. I met a retired Delphi worker about 4 years ago and he had to go back to work after he had retired.

[Common]

When the company I worked for gave the option to switch to a 401K I jumped on it and it will pan out nicely for me now even if there is a big dip in stocks.

The Delphi workers lost their pension in 2009 and are still in the courts fighting it. I met a retired Delphi worker about 4 years ago and he had to go back to work after he had retired.

Thats happened to alot of retirees and when that happens that takes jobs that younger people could be filling. Everyone gets screwed by that except the corporations who financially gain

[DGUtley]

First of all I believe you are wrong, about your first assumption that the moved to defined contributions, they REMOVED their contributions and financial responsibility completely by moving people into 401ks which are a RISK and stopped their contributions. Which in effect cut their employees pension benefit in half because prior the employer matched the employees contribution

No. Actually, the put the present value of the then-pension into the 401K and continued contributions - at least the union ones did, and the one I worked for, and the one my wife worked for. These were all governed by federal law (ERISA - I believe).

I never said we should force corporations to give pensions, I said we need to disallow corporations from just dropping their portion of the pension obligation that they promised their employees on hire and stopping peoples pensions who have been in them for years, who where hired with the belief.

I have been involved in litigation involving this issue. Where promises were made and relied on, the employees have won.

That is a play on words that is incorrect, by a corporation putting you in a 401k and dropping their contributions they are in effect stopping your pension and ending their entire financial responsibility, thats screwing their pensioners out of paying their half

No. That's not what happened.

401ks are not all guaranteed ask enron and worldcom employees and if and when you are ready to retire and the market is up or down makes your pension not guaranteed and unstable. You lose being vested in your pension.

You are vested. Invest in guaranteed funds rather than risky funds. Every 401K has a guaranteed fund that I've seen. As I explained, those at Enron that didn't invest in Enron did fine.

There are those that are all for corporations sticking it in their workers ass so they can pocket all that money. Others believe that corporations should be forced to live up to their responsibility and promise they made to employees. If they change their hiring policy and tell new employees we OFFER NO PENSION thats fine and then the employee has a choice. They should not have the right to stop pensions and their responsibility to pay into that pension as promised until they have to shutter up.

So, the options are "sticking it in their workers ass so they can pocket all that money" -vs- "be forced to live up to their responsibilities and promise they made the employees...until they have to shutter up."? The 401K is a better vehicle with a better return. It is not sticking it in their workers ass. The defined benefit plans were just unaffordable. https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/de...hered-they-go/ The realities of the business world have changed and pensions have changed with them.

Employees make the money for any company or corporation they fully provide a paid service to their employers. This nonesense that investors come before employees and have all the rights and employees have none is WRONG. The employees invested years and many times decades to that company they have their lives invested in that company and DESERVE fair treatment and fair treatment to me is a corporation living up to its responsibility until everyone has to get screwed.

A corporation exists for one reason at law: to make money for INVESTORS. Who said that investors have ALL the rights and employees have NONE of the rights? Your statement is argle-bargle. How is "living up to its responsibility until everyone has to get screwed" rational?