When Did American Conservatism Die?

[Chris]

I think our political system could definitely change even if liberal values remain more or less internalized but I should clarify. I don't think this represents any dissatisfaction with democracy per se. In fact, what people want, particularly the national populists who vote for the likes like Trump, Farange and Le Pen, is more democracy not less. These voters, and I include myself among them, believe the system is fixed, remote and corrupt.

Because, imo, the system is too big, unwieldy, and powerful unto itself. Democracy would be better achieved at the local level and bottom-up.

[Peter1469]

Republics Always Go Bananas



The Constitution, no matter which sector of the ruling class uses it, is democracy's suicide note. Whoever worships that elitist manifesto has only himself to blame for the failures of the political oligarchy it established.

As it was intended. The Founders hated democracy. They were right.

[Peter1469]

It is fair to note that Donald Trump is not really a true conservative. Whereas he has appeared conservative in some areas--especially his judicial picks--he has not been consistently conservative.

He is really more of a populist than a traditional conservative.

As for the statement "We no longer ask of a judicial ruling or a legislative act: is it good? Is it fair? Is it just? Is it right? Will it help bring about a better society or a better world?" this is really not within the province of a judge (or a justice, if he or she is a part of the SCOTUS). This person should simply be interpreting the Constitution (or, in some cases, the written law), and not giving us his (or her) view of what would be best for American society. That is the province of the legislative branch--not the judicial branch.

Conservationism is an ideology. Populism is a tactic. However, I would agree it would be hard for a conservative to successfully employ populism.

[Mechanic]

And a harder question is why? Consider #5 in link below. No republican in Congress today, who considered themselves conservative will counter the words and behaviors of this president, even when those words do not represent our American values of freedom and inclusion. Values written long ago in our Constitution's Preamble.

I have my own thoughts and lots of information on the whys, but I want to see if anyone can tell us, can they defend our nation today under a President who is anything but conservative? Who acts not as an American president but as an autocrat. How did we get here?

"Conservatism, then, is not simply the concern of the people who have much property and influence; it is not simply the defense of privilege and status. Most conservatives are neither rich nor powerful. But they do, even the most humble of them, derive great benefits from our established Republic. They have liberty, security of person and home, equal protection of the laws, the right to the fruits of their industry, and opportunity to do the best that is in them. They have a right to personality in life, and a right to consolation in death. Conservative principles shelter the hopes of everyone in society. And conservatism is a social concept important to everyone who desires equal justice and personal freedom and all the lovable old ways of humanity. Conservatism is not simply a defense of “capitalism.” (“Capitalism,” indeed, is a word coined by Karl Marx, intended from the beginning to imply that the only thing conservatives defend is vast accumulations of private capital.) But the true conservative does stoutly defend private property and a free economy, both for their own sake and because these are means to great ends."

"The conservative is a person who endeavors to conserve the best in our traditions and our institutions, reconciling that best with necessary reform from time to time. “To conserve” means “to save.”

https://kirkcenter.org/politics-and-.../essence-1957/

"Something is profoundly wrong with the way we live today. For thirty years we have made a virtue out of the pursuit of material self-interest: indeed, this very pursuit now constitutes whatever remains of our sense of collective purpose. We know what things cost but have no idea what they are worth. We no longer ask of a judicial ruling or a legislative act: is it good? Is it fair? Is it just? Is it right? Will it help bring about a better society or a better world? Those used to be the political questions, even if they invited no easy answers. We must learn once again to pose them." Tony Judt 'Ill Fares the Land'

You can thank Saint Ray Goon.

[Mister D]

As it was intended. The Founders hated democracy. They were right.

At the founding we had an elite that was not distanced from the average American in terms of values, concerns and overall worldview. We now have an elite that despises your average American and considers themselves cosmopolitan citizens of the world. I want more democracy.

[Peter1469]

At the founding we had an elite that was not distanced from the average American in terms of values, concerns and overall worldview. We now have an elite that despises your average American and considers themselves cosmopolitan citizens of the world. I want more democracy.

I don't. But I do want the federalism given to us by our Founders. And the US was more democratic at the local level.