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Thread: The First RadFem Social Network

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Sex and gender are not the same thing.
    From https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/gender:

    "Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female."

    So, yes, and no. The definition is ambiguous.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  2. #42
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    IMPress Polly's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    From https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/gender:

    "Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female."

    So, yes, and no. The definition is ambiguous.
    Not really. As the bolded part points to, the term gender implies that there exists such a thing as a "male nature" and a "female nature". That's the fundamentally conservative premise behind the application that trans-identified people use, and it's one that radical feminists reject the validity of.

  3. #43
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    Rationalist's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    You're misreading the emphasis in my statement. Radical feminists, including me, DO REGARD gender as a social construct. That's why we reject transgenderism. Do you get what I'm saying now?
    Given your preceding post to this, I'm assuming you meant to put "reject" in this statement rather than "regard."

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Not really. As the bolded part points to, the term gender implies that there exists such a thing as a "male nature" and a "female nature". That's the fundamentally conservative premise behind the application that trans-identified people use, and it's one that radical feminists reject the validity of.
    The ambiguity is properly highlighted below:

    "Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female."

    Not that long ago you argued the blue, now you argue the red.

    Re my comment to Eth, the red is just an extension of biological sex. That was all my point was about. But now we're at it, it, the red, is not a social construct but natural. The blue is constructed, it's artificial. When the trans extended the blue to themselves, you switched definitions to the red. To argue you haven't is just arguing from ambiguity.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Not really. As the bolded part points to, the term gender implies that there exists such a thing as a "male nature" and a "female nature". That's the fundamentally conservative premise behind the application that trans-identified people use, and it's one that radical feminists reject the validity of.
    It is somewhat amusing when considering that a lot of the same people who claim there are more than 2 genders also support the concept of gender dysphoria, which generally only manifests in the binary way you describe.

    Basically, if there are more than 2 genders, then it doesn't make much sense that transgender people would conform to the stereotypes for females or males.

    It's basically taking transvestitism too far.

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    It's rather amusing to watch feminists (much more strictly defined in this case) try to disown transgender ideology but this thread had a jaw dropping moment when transgenderism was explained away as having derived from a conservative premise.

    Feminism is notoriously unscientific so I can't say I'm surprised by some of the assertions I've come across here. Some even go so far as to dismiss science itself as patriarchal and oppressive. Still, you just have to shake your head. Frankly, this is the primary problem with safe spaces. When they talk to each other and share their manifestos it must all seem so logical, rational and astute but everyone else is like...what in the $#@!?
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Sex and gender are not the same thing.
    Sort of. I would argue elements of gender are biological while others are social. In short, gender overlaps with sex. The part of gender that is social is mostly not connected to sex.

    Where there is a lot of room for debate is how much of gender is biological. Personally, I think most feminists make the mistake of viewing things through a lens of oppression without considering what the tradeoffs are.

    For example, women 100 years ago had less autonomy in the US, but they also were more socially protected by society. The sexual revolution removed most of those protections without giving much in return. The autonomy came at a pretty high price -- especially when looking at things like the breakdown of the family structure and sexual violence.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    It's rather amusing to watch feminists (much more strictly defined in this case) try to disown transgender ideology but this thread had a jaw dropping moment when transgenderism was explained away as having derived from a conservative premise.
    I could be wrong here, but I think she was using "conservative" in a figurative sense, not a political one.

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  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post
    Sort of. I would argue elements of gender are biological while others are social. In short, gender overlaps with sex. The part of gender that is social is mostly not connected to sex.

    Where there is a lot of room for debate is how much of gender is biological. Personally, I think most feminists make the mistake of viewing things through a lens of oppression without considering what the tradeoffs are.

    For example, women 100 years ago had less autonomy in the US, but they also were more socially protected by society. The sexual revolution removed most of those protections without giving much in return. The autonomy came at a pretty high price -- especially when looking at things like the breakdown of the family structure and sexual violence.

    That sort of what I'm trying to get at when I said: "the red is just an extension of biological sex." That is, gender is a natural, evolutionary extension of sex, found in the division of labor in earliest man. Typically, men hunted and women tended the home and land. The division didn't have to be that, some cases of the opposite roles have been found--just as there are, today, househusbands. Regardless, the division followed biological, sexual lines.

    Feminists like Polly used to argue gender was a social construct because such fluidity of definition allowed her to argue as one of the (Marxian) oppressed against oppression. It allowed gays to define roles in relationships. All fine and dandy till the transvestites latched onto the same argument.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    But you once supported "gender as social construct" and now you don't. THat's your contradiction. If you cannot understand at this point, it's because you're choosing not to.
    She still supports gender as a social construct. She said so repeatedly. There is no contradiction. Just your obsession with attacking Polly.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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