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Thread: How related are religion and philosophy?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Based on the scientific study by Numa Denis Fustel De Coulanges in The Ancient City, it could be argued religion was if not still is part of every aspect of life.

    I say scientific because some here are confusing philosophy with science when the two are different unless you adhere to an older version of science as being reasonable, in which case what do you say of the works of Thomas Aquinas and St Augustine but that they were then scientific.

    And what do we make of those like Kuhn and Popper who were philosophers of science?

    Is not science today based on faith in empiricism?
    I was thinking the same thing. When did philosophy become a science and what do philosophers prove? You make a good point about an older sense of the term "science" but to use it in that sense would undermine the OP's argument.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlejohn View Post
    Hi,
    I'm curious whether others might have asked this question, or pondered it. From the viewpoint of organizing the board categories, I would have challenged combining the two. (its none of my business and certainly nobody is asking for my opinion)
    Had I been in the room when the decision makers rolled out the "plan," I'm quite sure I would have suggested religion and philosophy were different enough to warrant their own categories.
    In the hypothetical situation of my dumb ass being anywhere near the rulers of the web site and having the nerve to want to vote, the conversation that followed would likely begin with, "WTF you talkin' about, of course they go together, just go look in the library, or a book store. Same place, same stuff." (or something to that effect)
    And they would be correct in saying that. Religion and Philosophy are "lumped" most everywhere. However, I am not everywhere, I am here. Thus, I burden my fellow members with the question.

    This is intended to provoke thought. Thus, I resist trying to persuade or guide folks toward agreement or disagreement. But I feel I ought to leave at least some idea of my own motivations for making the claim. There is no perfect entry point into this argument. However, it is easy enough to point out that while Philosophers with a slant toward the metaphysical do include creation and God in their syntheses. They do so in the same way scientists do. Scientists and Philosophers are both happy to announce their own works-in-progress and wait for them to be overturned by further investigation or observation.
    Philosophy as a discipline is also concerned with ethics, morality, and in some cases government.
    All of the things I have mentioned so far, can be heard as well within any religious format. (God, creation, ethics, morality, etc.)

    The difference, and the crux of my argument lies in what is done with the information. Philosophers and scientists produce the information motivated only by the search for truth. Religion is an enforcement business that uses (consumes) the words, the ideas, and packages them appropriately to enable them to extract resources from a population, and providing a powerful political tool to rulers (government).

    I suggest Religion and Government have worked hand in hand quite beneficially since the dawn of time since both are in the business of extracting resources from populations. Religions provide the fear, governments provide the guns -- and just like that The US owns Hawaii. (Ha!) But you get my point.
    So, my proposal is that the category of Political Science and Religion (for example) might be a better match than Philosophy and Religion. Pair Philosophy (if you must) with science.

    My vote, my opinion, my rant.
    Please have a wonderful day !
    You've made several assertions I find problematic. They are in bold.

    Philosophers are happy to have their philosophies overturned? Really? Secondly, how do you overturn a philosophy by investigation and observation?

    I could accept the claim that philosophers are motivated by a search for the truth but if scientists are searching for "truth" (questionable) it's only in relation to natural phenomena. Secondly, I hear this claim about religion made all the time but can you actually demonstrate it? Third, why could we not say the same with far greater justification about philosophy? Marxism in all its manifestations, fascism and nationalism all fit your description far better than any of the world's great transcendent religions. How could possibly overlook that without wanting to?

    Religion and government have certainly worked in tandem at times. This was often for good but regardless...since the dawn of time? Religion predates all forms of government and has been characteristic of human societies as long as there have been people.

    No rush. Take your time.
    Last edited by Mister D; 08-24-2019 at 04:57 PM.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Cotton1 (08-28-2019),Orion Rules (09-02-2019),Peter1469 (08-24-2019)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pickle View Post
    Oh please.
    Really?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Really?
    Truly.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    I see your point. For me philosphy is science and not religion. I am not fond that religion is lumped in, but it doesnt bother me. I don't mind at all. Philosophy can be combined with religion. The deep study of any religion will ultimately lead to philosophy so perhaps they are part of each other. It all depends on the person. Every person is different and has a different set of conditioning and beliefs. It is just a sub forum with two topics in it that's all.
    I think since a lot of people who like philosophy may also be religious that it was a safe bet to put them in the same category just in case anyone tends to stray while posting. Religion can offend some. So keeping in its own category is not a bad idea.
    All good thoughts. I'm looking forward to the day when I can think about this with that kind of peacefulness. I'm not feeling "angsty" about it. Mostly just trying to get to the bottom of -- why it stings when I see them together.

    Just for fun. What if I said, "The deep study of any religion will ultimately lead to psychology."

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlejohn View Post
    All good thoughts. I'm looking forward to the day when I can think about this with that kind of peacefulness. I'm not feeling "angsty" about it. Mostly just trying to get to the bottom of -- why it stings when I see them together.

    Just for fun. What if I said, "The deep study of any religion will ultimately lead to psychology."
    I would say, your not wrong.
    We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    [...] Philosophers are happy to have their philosophies overturned? Really? Secondly, how do you overturn a philosophy by investigation and observation?
    Can't, as no time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptah#/...8s_II_2004.JPG
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    You follow a philosophy, and believe in a religion.

    But no one ever shoved a sword through someone's gut over a philosophy.

    It takes a fanatical belief to do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Retirednsmilin308 View Post
    You follow a philosophy, and believe in a religion.

    But no one ever shoved a sword through someone's gut over a philosophy.

    It takes a fanatical belief to do that.

    Marx was a philosopher.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Retirednsmilin308 View Post
    You follow a philosophy, and believe in a religion.

    But no one ever shoved a sword through someone's gut over a philosophy.

    It takes a fanatical belief to do that.
    Killings in the name of a philosophy have been perpetrated tens of millions of times in your lifetime. Come again?
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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