We should welcome deep digs into 1619. Slavery and white supremacy shaped today's Ame

[FindersKeepers]

I can agree that slavery has shaped our country in a lot of respects. Granted, there are aspects to it not often discussed.

One of the most negative aspects to it is that it created a large underclass of people that had to integrate into open society after the end of the Civil War. This integration actually proceeded in a mostly functional manner up until the imposition of Jim Crow laws. It's a strange thought, but race relations were better in most areas immediately after the Civil War than they were by the early 1900s.

When taking into account the economic effects of having a large underclass and the social effects of cultural conflict due to racism, it seems pretty clear that the American economy and society would actually have fared better without slavery ever having been used. Native Americans would have probably fared better as well, since Western expansion was largely driven by the urbanization of the Eastern seaboard.

I've heard this before and it's likely factual. We would be a different nation today -- perhaps healthier and wealthier over all -- had slavery never been a part of our history. However, African Americans have helped us evolve quicker -- in a social sense -- than had we been a mostly white nation. Because of their struggle, we've been able to understand that we're all human no matter our skin color. That's a big societal step.

If slavery had never happened, we'd probably have a much smaller population, a more Eurocentric population, and a lot of Western areas that would have much smaller populations in general. Granted, there would have also been the chance that the West wouldn't even be part of the US. Conflicts between American settlers and Mexico eventually led to the Texas Revolution, and part of what drove that conflict was white settlers wanting to bring in slaves. Multiple conflicts with Mexico eventually led to the Mexican-American War, which resulted in the US gaining a lot of Western territory. So, there is a possibility that, without slavery, Mexico would still own a lot of what is now part of the Western US. Not having all that land would probably mean that our economy would be a lot smaller, but on the flipside, we might have maintained a higher standard of living due to a lack of a huge underclass.

That's an interesting theory and I'd like to think it about it further. Mexico might control California, Nevada, perhaps New Mexico? I wonder how our relations would be with them had we never had slavery.

Granted, there are unintended cultural consequences to slavery that have been positive. For example, blues, soul, and jazz all owe a lot to N-e-g-r-o spirituals that were created during slavery. Rock music, in turn, owes a lot to blues and soul. So, our musical heritage would likely be very different today had it not been for slavery. (the profanity filter apparently thinks my hyphenated word is a slur, but it's not)

I agree! They introduced some wonderful cultural and musical additions that have enriched our lives. I can't imagine not having the wonderful flavor of Louisiana Creole foods that make you cry every time you take a bite! And the Hoodoo influence that makes the back streets of New Orleans a magical place to visit. Plus, the bold colors in today's fabrics were originally influenced by AA contributions. White women can't always pull off those colors, but they're beautiful on deep-toned skins.

Yes, we would be much different, but I'm not sure we'd be better off. Well, maybe when it comes to urban crime, but I think that's just a result of programs designed to help AAs, which end up demoralizing/paralyzing them instead. I do hope this current fad of acting as if whites are the cause of their problems passes quickly. Like all humans, the sooner they take 100% responsibility for their lot in life, the sooner that lot will begin to improve.

[FindersKeepers]

First of all I'm pretty sure there must have been slavery in some way shape or form in america prior to 1619. Because the cancer of slavery was everywhere. It existing deep into Africa, in South and even North America and of course Europe. It had played a part in the ME and undoubtedly in Asia. Although i am fairly confident that Antarticia has remained slave free!
Slavery is routed deep in to the fabric of human history, even among my beloved H&G tribes.
If they are going to try to address slavery 400 years back in in one place they may as well address slavery everywhere over tens of thousands of years. We should address other atrocities as well and when we are done we will probably all owe repairations to ourselves!

Oh, for sure! Slavery is an ancient construct. It's happened in virtually every corner of the world, and until the 18th Century, no one batted an eye. US slavery was just one small part of what was once a widespread problem.

And, don't forget that women -- of any color -- were virtually slaves for millennia. We've come a long way, baby! LOL I certainly don't begrudge men for that sordid history, though. We are all products of our time. The people of a thousand years ago all thought they were doing the right thing. Beating them over the head for it now would be silly. Same with slavery. Slave owners and slave traders thought it was fine. We know it's not but back then, they were just beginning to wake up. It's over. No use in looking backwards any longer.

And Peter your comment about how the Constitution was written to provide blacks equality at some future point ( because they could not make it happen then) is one of the most overlooked facts about the Constitution. I'm not justifying delaying the end of slavery, even though without that delay we would not have become our own nation. I am not justifying how Madison's ( I think it was him 20 years turned into 80)
However, when someone claims that the Constitution is racist I either get pissed off or just laugh at their ignorance. The second option is much better.

Our Founders were insightful men. We owe them much for the freedoms we all enjoy today.

[Agent Zero]

We should welcome deep digs into 1619. Slavery and white supremacy shaped today's America

This is an example of illeberalism and frankly insanity. The NYTs is probably killing itself with this movement.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of our Founding. The Founders were well aware of the sin of slavery. They created the Constitution in such a way that slavery would be ended in the future.
Americans must denounce this nonsense. They are enemies of the good.

I've followed Cose for years. Have you?

Because, and with all due respect, your few words condemning his have completely missed the point of his opinion piece.

You don't have to be black to see the importance of slavery to the American story. It has fundamentally shaped who we are. Erasing that erases history.

[roadmaster]

Our founding fathers didn't approve of aboration or slavery. It was court casses that open paths to both. A servent was not a slave, they owed the family and had to work up to five years depending on what they owed and then set free. Just like if you buy a car, you have to work to pay it off if you borrow money.

[Peter1469]

I've followed Cose for years. Have you?

Because, and with all due respect, your few words condemning his have completely missed the point of his opinion piece.

You don't have to be black to see the importance of slavery to the American story. It has fundamentally shaped who we are. Erasing that erases history.

Sorry, the 1619 movement is evil to its core. The United States is unique in world history. For good.

[Mister D]

He appears to specialize in race.

http://elliscose.com/bookshelf/

We spoke earlier about useless academics. Case in point.