What is the basis for rights?

[Rationalist]

As a side conversation in a different thread, a discussion regarding rights happened, and it was suggested that I start an independent thread on it.

So, what do you believe is the basis for rights?

Personally, I like elements of the natural rights argument, even though I'm not religious.

[Peter1469]

Right.

You can accept natural rights from a religious or secular point of view. First Things by Hadley Arkes is a good resource.

[Chris]

Right.

You can accept natural rights from a religious or secular point of view. First Things by Hadley Arkes is a good resource.

Arkes is a good way to understanding rights in terms of--far beyond mere instinct--justifications and condemnations of our actions. We have a right to defend ourselves. Killing another is generally justified if it's in self-defense; murder is condemned.

[Peter1469]

Arkes is a good way to understanding rights in terms of--far beyond mere instinct--justifications and condemnations of our actions. We have a right to defend ourselves. Killing another is generally justified if it's in self-defense; murder is condemned.

Arkes wrote that every society that has existed felt that unjustified murder was wrong. But societies differed on where the line was between justified and unjustified homicide.

[Mister D]

This will be entertaining.

[Mister D]

Rationalist, our progressive members can be very weird about this. They obviously accept the premise of Natural Rights but the term itself seems to evoke some kind of libertarian conspiracy.

[Crepitus]

As a side conversation in a different thread, a discussion regarding rights happened, and it was suggested that I start an independent thread on it.

So, what do you believe is the basis for rights?

Personally, I like elements of the natural rights argument, even though I'm not religious.

It's very simple as far as I'm concerned. Your rights come from the society you live in. (Morals too BTW).

I don't believe there is a supreme being of any sort, so forget about "God given".

That lion is gonna eat you so forget about "natural" right.

But if you get together with a buncha other folks, you collectively can eat the lion and go form a religion to grant you "god given" rights for an encore.

But they really come from your society.

[Rationalist]

It's very simple as far as I'm concerned. Your rights come from the society you live in. (Morals too BTW).

I don't believe there is a supreme being of any sort, so forget about "God given".

That lion is gonna eat you so forget about "natural" right.

But if you get together with a buncha other folks, you collectively can eat the lion and go form a religion to grant you "god given" rights for an encore.

But they really come from your society.

If you believe that, then it sounds like rights are arbitrary and are just a matter of convincing people that something should be a right. That does actually explain very well the whole mentality of declaring healthcare a right.

[Crepitus]

If you believe that, then it sounds like rights are arbitrary and are just a matter of convincing people that something should be a right. That does actually explain very well the whole mentality of declaring healthcare a right.

Rights and morals are 100% arbitrary.

It's not about "convincing" in most cases. Societies grow kinda organically. Circumstances, technology level, and many other things influence it. Generally the harsher the conditions the less people have rights. There are exceptions but that hold true more often than not.

[Rationalist]

Rights and morals are 100% arbitrary.

It's not about "convincing" in most cases. Societies grow kinda organically. Circumstances, technology level, and many other things influence it. Generally the harsher the conditions the less people have rights. There are exceptions but that hold true more often than not.

So you don't believe there are any universal morals?