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Thread: What is the basis for rights?

  1. #111
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    ]2epo]V[an's Avatar Member
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    moral universality
    Thats very catholic of you.

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    Rationalist's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ]2epo]V[an View Post
    Nope, you're confusing argumentum ad populum for natural law.

    Something that's universal is something thats true from any standpoint.

    Every society has counter cultures or subcultures. Your position is flawed.
    I guess I should clarify then. Natural law basically establishes rights in a universal sense.

    Morality obviously varies by individual, but morality and rights are separate things.

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  4. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post
    I guess I should clarify then. Natural law basically establishes rights in a universal sense.

    Morality obviously varies by individual, but morality and rights are separate things.
    Perhaps, but our notion of rights have been derived from our notions of morality - even natural rights.
    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

  5. #114
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    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ]2epo]V[an View Post
    Natural law.
    Quote Originally Posted by ]2epo]V[an View Post
    Thats very catholic of you.
    It is.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Perhaps, but our notion of rights have been derived from our notions of morality - even natural rights.
    Agree, and it's all based on man's nature. In a biological, social, and even spiritual sense. It is what man discovers but does not designs.
    Last edited by Chris; 09-15-2019 at 10:12 AM.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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  8. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Agree, and it's all based on man's nature. As a biological, social, and even spiritual sense. It is what man discovers but des not design.
    Correct. I use this strictly as an example and not meant to drag off-topic.
    Newton did not discover Gravity. It had always been around. He didn't even prove it was gravity, but figured out how to mathematically explain it. In his exuberance, he named it gravity.
    This rule also applies to air, wind, and water. These things are universal.
    How we use it is Moral.
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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  10. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    Correct. I use this strictly as an example and not meant to drag off-topic.
    Newton did not discover Gravity. It had always been around. He didn't even prove it was gravity, but figured out how to mathematically explain it. In his exuberance, he named it gravity.
    This rule also applies to air, wind, and water. These things are universal.
    How we use it is Moral.
    Agree, though I would say Newton discovered gravity but did not design it, in exactly the sense you explain. Somehow some people think man's nature is special in this sense in that they believe man can design his own nature, laws, rights, morals, truths.

    And actually, Newton discovered as you say an explanation or theory of gravity, then along came Einstein who discovered a more refine explanation or theory, and physicists are refining that. Discovery is a gradual process. I think this is the way societies/cultures work, discovering and refining explanations of rights, laws, morals, and that accounts for the variation you see in practice.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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  12. #118
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    jet57's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post
    As a side conversation in a different thread, a discussion regarding rights happened, and it was suggested that I start an independent thread on it.

    So, what do you believe is the basis for rights?

    Personally, I like elements of the natural rights argument, even though I'm not religious.
    A social contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Rationalist, our progressive members can be very weird about this. They obviously accept the premise of Natural Rights but the term itself seems to evoke some kind of libertarian conspiracy.
    There is no such thing as natural rights. We’ve been through this before.

  14. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    There is no such thing as natural rights. We’ve been through this before.
    By that logic, there is no such thing as a social contract either.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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