New UK Election Expected: My Thoughts

[Rationalist]

This entire post is what's lunacy here. Until recently, an isolationist party was governing Italy. Russian-backed isolationist regimes similarly control Poland and Hungary at present. Frankly, the new British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is also part of this orbit, though less one-sidedly so than Nigel Farage and his Brexit Party.

Outside of Europe, Brazil's Jair Bolsonaro and America's Donald Trump are also obvious examples. I'm referring to a "nationalist" political trend that embraces a negative view of both immigration and trade in a negative light broadly. You know that. You're not as dumb as you're playing.

Polly, if you don't understand why immigration is viewed negatively here and in Europe, then you haven't been paying attention to the results of said immigration. And it's not a negative view of all immigration -- just for poor migrants that are unskilled and who conflict with the local culture and values. In America, immigration functions a little better, since we encourage assimilation. In Europe, they're getting overwhelmed by Muslims that have little in common with European cultures and who have few employable skills.

So, you can disparage nationalism in places like Hungary all you want, but they win elections because people are sick of globalists and their policies.

[Peter1469]

We've already seen some of the terms on which the U.S. intends to jump in and they're quite harsh. Same with China. The fact is that, without the EU, the UK will have much LESS bargaining power, not more.

I have not seen the terms the Trump administration have said would apply to the UK.

I have heard the president say that we would prefer totally free trade so long as it applies both ways. (This was outside the Brexit context).

[Peter1469]

Polly, if you don't understand why immigration is viewed negatively here and in Europe, then you haven't been paying attention to the results of said immigration. And it's not a negative view of all immigration -- just for poor migrants that are unskilled and who conflict with the local culture and values. In America, immigration functions a little better, since we encourage assimilation. In Europe, they're getting overwhelmed by Muslims that have little in common with European cultures and who have few employable skills.

So, you can disparage nationalism in places like Hungary all you want, but they win elections because people are sick of globalists and their policies.

And who hold demonstrations where they state openly that they will breed enough to take over and end Western culture. The globalists are either extremely naive or evil.

[PJL]

England needs to follow through with Brexit , salvage what they can , then create new trading agreements......then put the cleaners through all muslim enclaves and deport trouble makers back to where they belong .

[Cletus]

Because in a no-deal Brexit, there will be no agreed-upon trading relationship between the UK and their neighbors! It will be utter chaos! Companies are ALREADY fleeing the country in anticipation, which has already produced an economic contraction that will likely be a full-blown recession EVEN BEFORE the scheduled Brexit date of Halloween. Imagine the next day. Shortages of even basic articles are widely expected.

Yeah, before the EU came into being, there were no medical supplies or food in the UK.

[IMPress Polly]

That's right, Polly. This major realignment seems likely to continue across the Western world. Things are changing. Get your priorities straight. Or maybe you already have...

Wha...?

Your posts baffle me. And often creep me out, frankly.

[testsubjectalpha]

so your a cartoon warewolf? Or what?

Wha...?

Your posts baffle me. And often creep me out, frankly.

[IMPress Polly]

Let's suppose you're correct for a moment. The UK exits the EU, and apparently, "shortages of food and medical supplies and the recolonization of Northern Ireland" happen. That would suggest that the UK is already compromised. If a US state decided to leave the US and the US allowed this peacefully, that state would not suffer shortages of food and medical supplies. Trade would be a little more complicated, but the people of said state would survive just fine. So it begs the question - why would it be so drastically different if a European country left the EU?

Basically, if your assumptions are correct, then the UK has a much bigger problem than just dealing with the EU. The problem is that they are a dependent vassal state rather than a sovereign nation.

Given the UK's resources, I would think they wouldn't be in such bad shape as the globalists claim to believe.

Yes well "the globalists", as you refer to them, are the general populations of Scotland and Northern Ireland, and even, by your metric (as in you either support a no-deal Brexit or you're a sellout to the "globalist" elite) the majority of the English as well. Just so we're clear that you're talking about a significant majority of the United Kingdom's population here because only a minority has ever supported a no-deal Brexit, which is now the clear and imminent threat looming on the horizon on October 31st (appropriately Halloween).

Polly, if you don't understand why immigration is viewed negatively here and in Europe, then you haven't been paying attention to the results of said immigration. And it's not a negative view of all immigration -- just for poor migrants that are unskilled and who conflict with the local culture and values. In America, immigration functions a little better, since we encourage assimilation. In Europe, they're getting overwhelmed by Muslims that have little in common with European cultures and who have few employable skills.

So, you can disparage nationalism in places like Hungary all you want, but they win elections because people are sick of globalists and their policies.

Just listen to yourself! Do you have any idea how snobbish and elitist you sound? You right now are speaking to someone who grew up in poverty.

I'm not going to claim that every Muslim refugee on this Earth is a saint (I'm not one of those people), but I will say that my determination of who is and isn't of worth isn't shaped by their income level and educational attainment and that there is a moral obligation here just at a human level for refugees fleeing war zones and other deadly situations to be provided with asylum in as far as countries are able to do so, I believe.

It's also worth adding that it isn't exactly mostly conservative Muslims who are say crossing OUR southern border here in the U.S., and yet the social conservatives are still against them anyway. The essential reason why countries like Sweden had to back off their initial aggressive commitments to Syrian refugees was because they were, for obvious reasons, overwhelmingly conservative Muslims who's influx caused a sharp and immediate spike in the overall rate of violent crime (such as rape, for example). That's simply not true at all of the refugees who have been crossing our southern border here in the U.S., who, in contrast, are actually statistically LESS likely to commit violent crimes than American citizens are! So why are people in your political camp against them as well if it's not down to simple nativist contempt for outsiders in the abstract?

[IMPress Polly]

I have not seen the terms the Trump administration have said would apply to the UK.

I have heard the president say that we would prefer totally free trade so long as it applies both ways. (This was outside the Brexit context).

There is no such thing as "totally free trade". The Administration has made it clear that the UK would have to make significant concessions in the way of business regulations in general in order to be allowed an expansive trading relationship with the United States post-Brexit.

The bottom line is that America wants a clear and distinct advantage in any such trading relationship and a country in a state of economic depression would be in no position to negotiate reasonable, equitable, reciprocal terms. The end result of this process is one wherein American and Chinese companies swoop in and take over much of the British economy and treat the British working class (including the specifically English one that voted for Brexit) significantly worse than they are currently being treated. As in fewer unions to protect their economic rights, fewer environmental regulations to protect their health and well-being, etc. That's the great and awesome eventuality that this policy offers unto the United Kingdom's working population. At the very best, disappointment is inevitable.

And who hold demonstrations where they state openly that they will breed enough to take over and end Western culture. The globalists are either extremely naive or evil.

I hear you on this particular issue and would agree with you that there are such things as reasonable limits when it comes to specifically Muslim asylum seekers, at least on a country-to-country basis, in Europe. A country does need to be able to successfully absorb and relatively assimilate people from much more conservative and misogynistic backgrounds after all. I'm not a believer in just limitless liberalism in that regard as I am often caricatured here on this message board.

Zero is not a reasonable limit though. And, as I pointed out to Rationalist, this situation does not exist on our southern border, so why do you also object to say Catholic asylum-seekers from Venezuela?

[Mister D]

Wha...?

Your posts baffle me. And often creep me out, frankly.

Ever the victim but you more closely resemble a parrot.

You were talking about a realignment, Polly. Do you know what that means?