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Thread: The Great Public School Questions

  1. #91
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    Reason10's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Work backwards from the Medicare for all debate. Have a public option for "free" education but let the majority who can afford it use private education. Similar results in both health care and education would result.
    Do you REALLY think that the average taxpayer who has been conditioned for over a CENTURY to the idea of free public schools is going to somehow opt for paying tuition for his/her kid's education?
    Before you attempt to answer that question, remember that today's Democrat Party is STILL a voice in America, NOT because of the issues but because that party has convinced so many idiots that they are ENTITLED to stuff from those who make more money. These are people who won't even spend the goddam money for pencils and other school supplies for their rug rats. These are people who are too cheap and lazy to get up in the morning and make their little rug rats breakfast, which is why EVERY elementary school I've subbed for in two counties has its own VERY expensive free breakfast program in the lunch room. Do you REALLY think these same parents will suddenly want to shell out even $100 a month for tuition? (And to offer the very minimum that public schools do, it'll be a lot more than that.)

    Do you REALLY think it is possible to change that attitude in this country?
    "Money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver." (Ayn Rand)

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    Standing Wolf's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell45 View Post
    I understand your viewpoint but consider this: the tax dollars saved might enable the parents to either send their children to private school or enough savings in tax dollars where a second paycheck would not be necessary. I'm sure that most people would agree that having one parent staying at home is better then having to ship kids off to daycare which is an additional expense.
    Sorry, gw, but the math doesn't even come close to working out on that. For one thing, a lot of people are under the impression that their property taxes go straight (and solely) into the funding of public schools - but in fact, in most places, those tax dollars also fund various aspects of government administration, public safety and law enforcement, etc. So putting your kids in private schools might, in theory and if the law where you live permitted it to happen, reduce your property tax bill, but wouldn't necessarily make it go away.

    Even if it did, the average annual property tax on a single family home in Arizona is about $2,600. The average annual private elementary school tuition in my state is $6,300; the average annual private high school tuition in my state is $17,339. Per child.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell45 View Post
    Additionally each parent knows their limitations as to home schooling; those who don't feel they have what it takes always have the option of sending their kids off to private school.
    You say that public education is by far one of the best investments that could be made; I agree it is an important one, hence why parents ought to decide which path their children take as far as their education and values are concerned. I went to a private high school and did better in life then some of my friends who went through the public school system. Schools are designed to teach their students and prepare them for life; not to act as babysitters which unfortunately some schools have become.
    Either way you make some compelling points and I respect your viewpoint.
    Ditto.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Sorry, gw, but the math doesn't even come close to working out on that. For one thing, a lot of people are under the impression that their property taxes go straight (and solely) into the funding of public schools - but in fact, in most places, those tax dollars also fund various aspects of government administration, public safety and law enforcement, etc. So putting your kids in private schools might, in theory and if the law where you live permitted it to happen, reduce your property tax bill, but wouldn't necessarily make it go away.

    Even if it did, the average annual property tax on a single family home in Arizona is about $2,600. The average annual private elementary school tuition in my state is $6,300; the average annual private high school tuition in my state is $17,339. Per child.



    Ditto.
    I probably didn't make myself clear; in NY where I live we have a separate school tax which is separate from town, city taxes. All monies collected from school tax go directly to the schools and not for municipal services. We have a town tax that covers services provided by the town (highway, recreation, library, etc) and a separate tax for the volunteer fire department as well.

    As opposed to sending children off to private school, home schooling is an option to be considered; the benefits IMO out weight private or public school as aside from state requirements, the parents decide what is important for their children to learn and the values that they would want instilled in them, which is something public and to a lesser extent, private schools cannot accomplish.

    I imagine it probably sounds rather radical to many but I think it's a viable option.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell45 View Post
    I probably didn't make myself clear; in NY where I live we have a separate school tax which is separate from town, city taxes. All monies collected from school tax go directly to the schools and not for municipal services. We have a town tax that covers services provided by the town (highway, recreation, library, etc) and a separate tax for the volunteer fire department as well.

    As opposed to sending children off to private school, home schooling is an option to be considered; the benefits IMO out weight private or public school as aside from state requirements, the parents decide what is important for their children to learn and the values that they would want instilled in them, which is something public and to a lesser extent, private schools cannot accomplish.

    I imagine it probably sounds rather radical to many but I think it's a viable option.
    What is the average tuition for a private high school where you live? Would your savings from being exempt from the school tax come anywhere near that amount, let alone permit one family income earner to quit their job and home school?
    “Inside of me there are two dogs. One is mean and evil and the other is good and they fight each other all the time. When asked which one wins I answer, the one I feed the most.”

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    Talk about public school
    Cops have arrested a 58-year-old female teacher for threatening to shoot students at Emerald Ridge High School in Pierce County, WA. She made threatening statements to case worker & deputies. She was arrested at her home this morning, she was not at school today

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    Quote Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
    Talk about public school
    Cops have arrested a 58-year-old female teacher for threatening to shoot students at Emerald Ridge High School in Pierce County, WA. She made threatening statements to case worker & deputies. She was arrested at her home this morning, she was not at school today
    Sure...let's give guns to all those school teachers!
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    i(l)ˈlib(ə)rəladjective1.opposed to liberal principles; restricting freedom of thought or behavior
    "illiberal and anti-democratic policies
    • synonyms: intolerant, narrow-minded, unenlightened, conservative, reactionary;


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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    What is the average tuition for a private high school where you live? Would your savings from being exempt from the school tax come anywhere near that amount, let alone permit one family income earner to quit their job and home school?
    Honestly I'm not sure; I'd have to do some research on it. Either way, I am sure not too many in here will lose too much sleep over this since It's highly unlikely to occur in our lifetimes; just a theory on my part. Perhaps in a different setting it might work.
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    The recent statistic I heard was that the public school system is producing only 30% of first graders who are proficient at reading at the first grade level. What more is there to say.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reason10 View Post
    I work in the system as a substitute teacher. I have done so since 1999. I've seen a lot.

    The Public School system in America is mostly a giant warehouse for children until they are old enough to move out of their parents' home. I may have mentioned that at another forum, but probably not here. If you see this on a daily basis (and it becomes really clear when you are able to move in and out of many different schools) you come to that conclusion.

    I'm asking here, IS THIS A GOOD THING?
    (There are no wrong answers. This is a think topic and I'd like to get some views.)

    This is less political than just studying the structure. Conservatives believe a lot of public schools have failed, are graduating morons and are indoctrinating kids to extremist left wing dogma. Liberals say we aren't spending enough money on public schools and that they should be extended to include the college years. I'm hoping we don't go down that path here, but all views are welcome.

    Is this giant warehouse a bad thing? Today, children (at least at the elementary level) are getting breakfast and lunch, are getting instruction in the basic skills of reading, writing, math and science. They also get music, physical education, STEM and library skills. Today the federal government pays about 7 percent for this. Most of the money for public schools (including determining teacher salaries) comes from the county level, sales and property taxes.

    Is it a bad thing for our country as a concept?

    Right now, it appears that China is going to come to the negotiation table with our President because the threats of tariffs are tearing that country apart. For the longest time, China has been an oppressive Communist totalitarian regime. We've seen over the past 40 years where China has embraced a lot of capitalism and has made amazing strides on the world stage. So why would its economy be in the crapper?

    I only know this because I have friends who are international brokers of various commodities. Most of China's enormous population is illiterate. Many of them are starving. What we see when it comes to those brilliant Chinese individuals are those in the cities who have competed their way up a very tall heap. We see the elite and we don't see the wretched.

    Do you think an educated population is good for a national economy? (And again, there are no wrong answers here. Swing away.)

    How is education today different from when old farts like me were in public school in the Sixties? I can remember a computer costing a million dollars and filling up an entire classroom. Yesterday I subbed for a math class where each student took at a mini laptop from the charging station and logged on to Google Classroom and did and entire math lesson for about 45 minutes. There are also reading programs where certain books are assigned what they call AR points. The student (usually at the elementary level) reads the book and then goes online for testing to get AR points.

    It's all pretty hi tech. And I can remember in 2000 when there were no laptops in school, where students had to go to regular computer labs for basic typing courses, and they were forbidden to go on the internet.

    A lot has changed.

    In your opinion, is it a good thing?

    And think in terms of the big picture. Is public education a good thing for the country.

    Right now, my jury is still out. Maybe some of you can help me make up my mind.


    Have at it.

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    I think Govt funded school are an embarrassement to our nation. Private schools will do a better job at a lower cost. Hell, Google will do it for free. No need for biased school teachers with a political agenda anymore.

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    when it comes to issues of values and morality, I think we would all agree that mom and dad are best. Anyone who claims a Gov't politician is the solution is an abject idiot.

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