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Thread: Should all men suffer for the actions of men like Alexander Fleming?

  1. #11
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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    I respect that you have a cause and that you're passionate about it, but the realities of being male or female are different. I will be the first to admit that as a female, I do not understand the male experience and I probably never could. However, the rates of violence against women are disturbing both in terms of the number of incidents and the types of incidents. Not only that, but it speaks to attempts to control women through violence (mainly in areas like the Middle East/Asia and Africa) or to exploit women somehow ("developed" world).

    The actual rates of violence do not differ much from region to region, which is kind of startling, but there are different kinds of violence and different statistics that seem to speak to patterns of behavior. For example, there is more institutionalized and ritualized violence (due to a lack of laws and/or the culture) in places that use female genital mutilation, but much greater gender equality in areas where domestic violence and sexual assault are the predominant issues. Of course, it's impossible to get actual numbers but you notice the patterns. Interestingly, an author/researcher found that once Iraq had been occupied by the United States and took on more democratic features, they actually saw a massive spike in domestic violence. The writer went back and began looking at transitional democracies and they seem to take on the types of violence you would find in first world democracies, while shedding the more lawless, institutional forms bought about by dictatorships (particularly those with religious aspects).

    Not every man is violent or abusive. Absolutely, we should not be treating all men as though they are guilty of something. But an issue that arises is that either every man is basically "in on it" in an institutionalized/ritualized setting (actively or passively), or you simply cannot predict who is violent in areas like the US or Europe where intimate partner violence is more the norm. It could be anyone and we're taught to believe that it could be anyone - including and especially our date, our boyfriend, our husband...
    Yes, more men are violent than women. But that is still a small percentage of men. Although there are far for female DV perps than you might guess. As for control within relationships you should look at the stats on lesbian partner violence. It may just be that some people of both sexes are bullies and that bullies don't start physical fights they cannot win. But as for emotional control and abuse tactics well I don't see that men have any corner on that sick market.
    Don't get me wrong, i worked in a hospital for 15 years and DV horrifies me. I guess before that I thought it was some guy losing control and slapping his wife or vice versa. But I learned that the control type of violence you refer to is far worse. Extended assaults , dragging her around by the hair. Things the same guy wouldn't do to another man in a bar fight. I knew a couple once that claimed they settled their disputes via knock down drag out physical fights. She out weighed him. Crazy stuff.
    Despite my assertion that control abusers of either sex are bullies I do think teaching men how to talk about what's going on in their heads might help. It would certainly help with the higher rates of male suicide and early death.

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    CCitizen (10-04-2019)

  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulletbob View Post
    miss a coyple goses of your meds rhis week
    No. Effexor 75 mg. Should I be getting 150 mg?

    I am very emotional. I do not fit into traditional male Stoicism.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Yes, more men are violent than women. But that is still a small percentage of men. Although there are far for female DV perps than you might guess. As for control within relationships you should look at the stats on lesbian partner violence. It may just be that some people of both sexes are bullies and that bullies don't start physical fights they cannot win. But as for emotional control and abuse tactics well I don't see that men have any corner on that sick market.
    Don't get me wrong, i worked in a hospital for 15 years and DV horrifies me. I guess before that I thought it was some guy losing control and slapping his wife or vice versa. But I learned that the control type of violence you refer to is far worse. Extended assaults , dragging her around by the hair. Things the same guy wouldn't do to another man in a bar fight. I knew a couple once that claimed they settled their disputes via knock down drag out physical fights. She out weighed him. Crazy stuff.
    Despite my assertion that control abusers of either sex are bullies I do think teaching men how to talk about what's going on in their heads might help. It would certainly help with the higher rates of male suicide and early death.
    I agree. Indeed, 90% of criminals are men. But men must reject collective blame in the strongest terms.

    The only exception is child abuse and possibly intimate partner violence.

  5. #14
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    FindersKeepers's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    I respect that you have a cause and that you're passionate about it, but the realities of being male or female are different. I will be the first to admit that as a female, I do not understand the male experience and I probably never could. However, the rates of violence against women are disturbing both in terms of the number of incidents and the types of incidents. Not only that, but it speaks to attempts to control women through violence (mainly in areas like the Middle East/Asia and Africa) or to exploit women somehow ("developed" world).

    The actual rates of violence do not differ much from region to region, which is kind of startling, but there are different kinds of violence and different statistics that seem to speak to patterns of behavior. For example, there is more institutionalized and ritualized violence (due to a lack of laws and/or the culture) in places that use female genital mutilation, but much greater gender equality in areas where domestic violence and sexual assault are the predominant issues. Of course, it's impossible to get actual numbers but you notice the patterns. Interestingly, an author/researcher found that once Iraq had been occupied by the United States and took on more democratic features, they actually saw a massive spike in domestic violence. The writer went back and began looking at transitional democracies and they seem to take on the types of violence you would find in first world democracies, while shedding the more lawless, institutional forms bought about by dictatorships (particularly those with religious aspects).

    Not every man is violent or abusive. Absolutely, we should not be treating all men as though they are guilty of something. But an issue that arises is that either every man is basically "in on it" in an institutionalized/ritualized setting (actively or passively), or you simply cannot predict who is violent in areas like the US or Europe where intimate partner violence is more the norm. It could be anyone and we're taught to believe that it could be anyone - including and especially our date, our boyfriend, our husband...
    I was not taught to believe that -- and I cannot accept that. I was raised to believe men and women were to respect one another and the men in my life (husband, uncle, father, brother, son) respect me as I respect them.

    I know one woman who is abused by her husband. I've heard rumors about two more women but have no first hand knowledge. I've seen accounts on television shows and on the news where women have been abused.

    But, I've never known a man such as that in my personal life, and I believe violent men are the exceptions -- not the rule.

    I've spoken with the one woman I know has been abused -- we've had conversations and interesting things have come from those conversations. First, she grew up in a violent home, where her father smacked her mother and her as well. Then, as a teen, she had two boyfriends who were abusive and now she is married to an abusive man. It seems she subconsciously is attracted to that sort of male. He should never hit her but she tells me she sometimes provokes it. On purpose, like the time she threw his birthday cake at him. Sometimes, she punches him. She told me she once spit in his face.

    I'm sure not all women do things like that -- but I would never dream of doing that to anyone, any time, or anywhere.

    What is it she finds attractive in that type of man? What do they find attractive in her? Why does her type of man repulse me?
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCitizen View Post
    I agree. Indeed, 90% of criminals are men. But men must reject collective blame in the strongest terms.

    The only exception is child abuse and possibly intimate partner violence.
    Only a tiny percentage of men are violent. We, as a society, need to recognize that.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    CCitizen (10-04-2019)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    I was not taught to believe that -- and I cannot accept that. I was raised to believe men and women were to respect one another and the men in my life (husband, uncle, father, brother, son) respect me as I respect them.
    Thank you for supporting Sanity in a Society deteriorating toward Insanity. I respect all women and men.

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  11. #17
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    Standing Wolf's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    Only a tiny percentage of men are violent. We, as a society, need to recognize that.
    We, as a society - and the great majority of us as individuals - do recognize that. Nuts and fanatics do not need to be listened to or taken seriously. The people, mostly men of course, who obsess about how men are constantly being disrespected and villain-ized remind me - and should remind them - of the individuals who are eternally harping on how much angst and discrimination they are "constantly" suffering from others because of their race or religion. They are frequently the ones to call others snowflakes and drama queens, but their behavior and rhetoric closely mimics the very ones they so label.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    The people, mostly men of course, who obsess about how men are constantly being disrespected and villainized remind me - and should remind them - of the individuals who are eternally harping on how much angst and discrimination they are "constantly" suffering from others because of their race or religion. They are frequently the ones to call others snowflakes and drama queens, but their behavior and rhetoric closely mimics the very ones they so label.
    I am a snowflake. Ranting and venting on forums is my way of dealing with stress and offense. I believe that Stoicism is not the best choice for everyone. Many men deal with problems in much worse ways like drugs.

    The main fault men as a class have is not proactively defending our reputation in the same way every minority would defend their against Hate Speech. Now blaming all men for crimes of some is more acceptable then ever before.

    I sincerely apologize to anyone offended by my taking offense and general snowfakishness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    Inventing penicillin was a good thing.
    What did Fleming do that was bad? You have not clarified that.
    Logically I agree.

    Emotionally, it breaks my heart to think that so many misandrists who blame all men for all the World's problems were enabled to do so by men's inventions. Given that most of them lead promiscuous lifestyle, if it was not for penicillin, most of them would not have been blaming men.

    Unfortunately most men do not understand the degree to which unearned reputation of male evil and male monstrosity hurts them. Many men and most women would be more angry at me for stating the obvious then they would be at those who claim that all men are trash or all men bear the blame for a few bad men.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pickle View Post
    So all in all this OP is disjointed, nonsensical, rambling and without merit. The only reason I'm responding to it is because it somewhat amused me while at the same time confounded me. Kinda like a David Lynch movie.
    I know my reaction to male bashing is emotional.
    Lately I have started looking at gender roles. A man is suppose to be tough. A man is suppose to be not offended. A man is suppose to take abuse and insults "like a man".
    I do not agree with gender roles. I am human. I have many weaknesses, I am easily hurt if I am unjustly insulted. When I am hurt I am angry.

    Now something to offend everyone.

    Conservatives support keeping traditional gender roles, and I believe they are wrong. Many Leftists and feminists are much much more Conservative about men's gender roles then Conservatives.
    Last edited by CCitizen; 08-08-2020 at 08:43 PM.

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