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Thread: Federal deficit highest in 7 years

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    As I said, we have to eliminate baseline budgeting. I understand and appreciate what you say about cutting personal taxes but to me the deficit is more problematic than my personal pocket. We have to tackle the untouchables. If we don't, I think we'll crash. Then what?
    That will have no effect.

    This problem of massively spending cannot be solved under our present Constitution.

    We taxpayers should not have any more of our wealth stolen by an evil, greedy, and all-consuming federal government. You have made the case for socialism, Progressivism, or if you prefer to be accurate, Statism. I reject your case.

    The US will break apart unless we are successful in amending the Constitution. We have just one remaining path, a convention of States to propose amendments. There is no other path.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    That will have no effect. This problem of massively spending cannot be solved under our present Constitution. We taxpayers should not have any more of our wealth stolen by an evil, greedy, and all-consuming federal government. You have made the case for socialism, Progressivism, or if you prefer to be accurate, Statism. I reject your case. The US will break apart unless we are successful in amending the Constitution. We have just one remaining path, a convention of States to propose amendments. There is no other path.
    I make no such case. We have massive debt. We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Let's deal with the spending problem. Once solved we can then deal with the revenue problem. I agree on a convention of states. However that debt remains sitting there. For my yet-conceived grandchildren.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    I make no such case. We have massive debt. We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Let's deal with the spending problem. Once solved we can then deal with the revenue problem. I agree on a convention of states. However that debt remains sitting there. For my yet-conceived grandchildren.
    You did, Dave. You spoke just as any socialist, any liberal, any Progressive, any Statist speaks. "Tax me Moooore!"

    This thinking is absolutely muddleheaded.

    Three-fourths of the budget, three of the four trillion dollars, the federal government confiscates from us and spends goes to programs unsupported by the Constitution. The one-fourth is Constitutional. We cannot fix the problem by cutting the trillion dollars we spend for Constitutional programs while allowing the unconstitutional programs to grow, to flourish, and to devour us.

    But, instead of demanding a convention of States to solve the underlying problem, you claim simply, that we have a spending problem. We do not. We have a Constitutional problem. It began with FDR's counter-revolution of 1936 to 1943. Until we amend the Constitution to undo FDR's enormous damage we cannot fix our problem.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    You did, Dave. You spoke just as any socialist, any liberal, any Progressive, any Statist speaks. "Tax me Moooore!" This thinking is absolutely muddleheaded.
    No. I said "Tax me sammmmmmeeeeee while you pay down the deficitttttttttttttt!" The deficit is going to kill us.

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Three-fourths of the budget, three of the four trillion dollars, the federal government confiscates from us and spends goes to programs unsupported by the Constitution. The one-fourth is Constitutional. We cannot fix the problem by cutting the trillion dollars we spend for Constitutional programs while allowing the unconstitutional programs to grow, to flourish, and to devour us. But, instead of demanding a convention of States to solve the underlying problem, you claim simply, that we have a spending problem. We do not. We have a Constitutional problem. It began with FDR's counter-revolution of 1936 to 1943. Until we amend the Constitution to undo FDR's enormous damage we cannot fix our problem.
    I think we have to structurally rein in the Feds and it may require a convention but we have to deal with the deficit.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    No. I said "Tax me sammmmmmeeeeee while you pay down the deficitttttttttttttt!" The deficit is going to kill us.
    Semantics, Dave.

    Your solution leaves the problem unresolved and intact.
    I think we have to structurally rein in the Feds and it may require a convention but we have to deal with the deficit.
    If this solution had a chance of working by now it would have been tried.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Semantics, Dave.
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Your solution leaves the problem unresolved and intact. If this solution had a chance of working by now it would have been tried.
    It has been tried. Most recently with the Tea party. When we started to make inroads the swamp reacted and fought back.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    No.


    It has been tried. Most recently with the Tea party. When we started to make inroads the swamp reacted and fought back.
    It was not tried. The forty or so new members were co-opted in their first year.

    You fight hard against the only way to solve this problem. Or, at least that is my impression of your arguments.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    The amount of public debt as of June 2019 was 16.17 trillion dollars. The total national debt was 22.03 trillion dollars but 5.86 trillion dollars of that amount is offset by assets in Treasury bonds. Public debt to

    GDP was 76.4% at the end of 2018 and that is considered to be more relevant than total national debt to GDP which is now over 100%. At some point in the future this will likely be a serious problem but it

    isn't so dire at the present because borrowing costs are low. If Americans were smart we would make an effort to bring down the budget deficit in order to prevent a future calamity.

    I think that taxes should go up on the wealthy and that spending on many entitlement programs should come down as a percentage of GDP. I know that spending cuts on social security, medicare,

    medicaid, and food stamps aren't likely anytime soon. Large budget cuts will likely cause a recession so that path doesn't make much sense. Raising taxes on the wealthy will probably have the

    least negative affect on the economy compared to any other deficit cutting plan.

    I posted this graph on another thread which shows that the top 10% has more than 65% of household wealth. The bottom 50% appears to have about 2% of household wealth and those individuals are

    very vulnerable to an economic downturn.


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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalmike View Post
    ...
    Raising taxes on the wealthy will probably have the least negative affect on the economy compared to any other deficit cutting plan.
    In other words you are a thief.
    Last edited by MisterVeritis; 10-09-2019 at 06:35 PM.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    On other words you are a thief.
    Play nice MisterVeritis.
    Currently plotting the overthrow of the world; unfortunately I have no idea how to do it.
    .
    Independent and proud of it!
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