It depends on the situation, and what kind of person was coming at you. If you watch the video it plays a second shot from a cctv cam. It shows that she had her hands out to the side. She could have been tazed. In the old days the cop would have wrestled that woman to the ground. They used to duke it out with people. They were actually bad asses. This guy was screaming for her to drop the scissors while she was twitching on the floor breathing her last. She was no longer a threat. My answer is that it all depends on the situation. I wont say that I can do better. I am just judging from an outside of the situation perspective. I am a weak woman, but even so, I have had my share of strong moments. I confronted a knife wielding man to save a dog. I used reason to talk to him.
Think of how this guy may have escalated the situation just by the way he was talking to her asserting his authority. It was clear she was having a mental moment, maybe even drunk. Who knows how the situation could have been different if he had approached her a little bit differently. He was provoking her yelling at her that he would shoot her.
Why couldn't he have calmed down a bit and said mam, I don't want to shoot you. What's going on man, how can we help. Perhaps if he has used a more human approach the woman would still be alive today.
I am willing to hear you out.
We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.
Dr. Who (11-04-2019)
A lot more cops died back then as well. She had her hands out but that doesn’t mean she couldn’t have brought those scissors down on him in less than a second. He warned her multiple times. She was having a breakdown obviously but the cop can’t allow his life to be put at risk because someone else wants to die and is willing to kill someone else in order to get there. This was suicide by cop. To me this cop tried everything he could to reason with this woman. While it’s great that your anecdotal experience worked for you the cop doesn’t have the luxury given he does this day in and day out. It only takes one time for it to not work and he doesn’t come home to his family.
I talk all the time about how cops abuse their authority but I don’t see it in this case. He was projecting his authority because he is indeed in a position of authority and a crime was being committed. He cannot simply walk away. It’s his job. I didn’t hear anything from him that leads me to believe he escalated this situation.Think of how this guy may have escalated the situation just by the way he was talking to her asserting his authority. It was clear she was having a mental moment, maybe even drunk. Who knows how the situation could have been different if he had approached her a little bit differently. He was provoking her yelling at her that he would shoot her.
Here. Take a look at this video and see if you can see the difference between how these two cops handled the situation. They are not identical of course but notice the difference in escalation. One was escalated by the cop and the other by the “perp”.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=CRlm1_1571873861
One is a disgusting act of authoritarianism and the other is justified self-defense.
To me I think he tried. She had a weapon in her hand. He told her that he would shoot her if she came at him and that’s exactly what she wanted. He tried to talk to her but she was off her rocker. There are simply times when humans go “the crazy”.Why couldn't he have calmed down a bit and said mam, I don't want to shoot you. What's going on man, how can we help. Perhaps if he has used a more human approach the woman would still be alive today.
Well I hope so. That’s why we are all here after all. Well. Most of us. Well many of us. Well some of us.I am willing to hear you out.
I find your lack of faith...disturbing...
-Darth Vader
Just AnotherPerson (11-05-2019)
She was obviously manic, which is not normal. Once again someone who might have some form of mental illness was killed unnecessarily. There are so many ways that she could have been subdued without resorting to lethal force - taser, pepper spray, bean bags, using a chair to pin her against the wall ... She was shot like she was an unruly dog. Human life is decreasing in value and nobody cares.
In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.
"The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
Mahatma Gandhi
Just AnotherPerson (11-05-2019)
Let me ask you this. Was anyone being held hostage? Was there a time limit on her capitulation? Does every encounter between people who are not in their right minds have to be resolved in 5 minutes or less? That officer was on the other side of a counter from the woman. He was in no immediate danger. She wasn't a young woman so either she was likely reacting to some kind of prescription medication or she was experiencing some kind of manic episode. Given that no one was in danger, why not call in a professional to calm her down and failing that, use a non-lethal remedy?
In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.
"The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
Mahatma Gandhi
You are wrong. Police Officers and really ALL defensive shooters are trained to shoot at Center Mass of the target presented. You don't shoot for the leg or the arm or try to shoot the gun (or scissors) out of someone's hand. You pick the biggest target available, which will almost always be the torso and you shoot at the center of it and you shoot at least twice.
“Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater
I can appreciate your point of view, although I personally still don't agree with it. But I understand your opinion though. I had posted a thread on the one in your link. That officer had serious mental health issues for sure. Honestly I am starting to have a fear of officers, and I am a law abiding citizen. I went to the store a few weeks ago, and I seen 3 empty cruisers sitting in the parking lot, and for a second there, I had second thought's about going in that store. They have authority over us and they have a weapon on their hip that can take a life. If you upset them or scare them your life could be taken. It is no joke. All of my experiences with law enforcement have been positive. I have always had a respect for them. I believe they do a lot of good. But many of them are becoming militarized and seem to be using much more authority than ever before. It seems like a lot of the human element that they used to show is changing into something else. They no longer act like they are here to protect and serve but to have authority over us. It is getting kind of strange.
I haven't been pulled over since I was in my late teens and I am now almost 41. But I keep my insurance and registration within easy reaching distance in the consul where it is easily visible. The thought of reaching for it terrifies me. You never know if an officer will get scared, after all that is what we are dealing with someone who is afraid they wont go home that night. If you spark that fear in them even on accident they can take your life.
We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.
Private Pickle (11-05-2019),Standing Wolf (11-05-2019)
Just AnotherPerson (11-05-2019)