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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Social countries? Or capitalist countries with large social welfare nets? You know, like the Nordics.
    Socialistic (not socialist) and yes like the Nordics, but also like the UK, Canada, Australia, Germany etc. They all carry a small fraction of the debt that the US carries. Given the pie charts about US spending and the level of debt, people receiving welfare in America should be living in mansions, but they're not. If the money is really going where the pie charts suggest, America has a massive leakage problem.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    The bigger question is why is America's debt so high? What is America doing that most countries with similar standards of living are not? America is ground zero for capitalism today. It should have the lowest level of debt, not the highest.

    Take the UK for instance:
    "The welfare state is a big part of British family life, with 20.3 million families receiving some kind of benefit (64% of all families), about 8.7 million of them pensioners. For 9.6 million families, benefits make up more than half of their income (30% of all families), around 5.3 million of them pensioners. The number of families receiving benefits will be between 1 and 2 million fewer now because of changes to child tax credits that mean some working families who previously got a small amount now get nothing."
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...in-facts-myths

    But by comparison the UK is only 3.5% indebted as a percentage of GDP and they have a national healthcare program.

    In the US 21.3 percent of U.S. population participates in government assistance programs each month. https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...5/cb15-97.html

    Clearly 'welfare' is not the problem, nor is public healthcare.
    We spend a lot on defense, foreign aid etc. Only about half of our capital goes for social programs. Ever notice the Brits have crappy teeth ?
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  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    The bigger question is why is America's debt so high? What is America doing that most countries with similar standards of living are not? America is ground zero for capitalism today. It should have the lowest level of debt, not the highest.

    Take the UK for instance:
    "The welfare state is a big part of British family life, with 20.3 million families receiving some kind of benefit (64% of all families), about 8.7 million of them pensioners. For 9.6 million families, benefits make up more than half of their income (30% of all families), around 5.3 million of them pensioners. The number of families receiving benefits will be between 1 and 2 million fewer now because of changes to child tax credits that mean some working families who previously got a small amount now get nothing."
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...in-facts-myths

    But by comparison the UK is only 3.5% indebted as a percentage of GDP and they have a national healthcare program.

    In the US 21.3 percent of U.S. population participates in government assistance programs each month. https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...5/cb15-97.html

    Clearly 'welfare' is not the problem, nor is public healthcare.
    Clearly you are wrong. The bulk of out debt is from Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotton1 View Post
    We spend a lot on defense, foreign aid etc. Only about half of our capital goes for social programs. Ever notice the Brits have crappy teeth ?
    If America is borrowing money to give it away in foreign aid, it needs a lesson in economics 101. We are told repeatedly that defense is not the issue (not per the pie charts). The NHS only covers dental treatment that is clinically necessary. It doesn't cover cosmetic issues. People can buy supplementary insurance for that. If they don't, it's because they are not as culturally predisposed to do so.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Clearly you are wrong. The bulk of out debt is from Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
    If that is really the case, then America needs to go to the UK or Europe and find out how to do it properly because clearly they are doing it wrong. Then again perhaps the problem is that it costs a fortune to become a doctor in America and rather than subsidize the cost of post-secondary education, it is preferable for the cost of healthcare to go through the roof. US doctors make about twice what UK doctors make, but then again while on average it costs £220,000 to train a doctor over their five-year degree in the UK (actually more than in the US), most of the training is paid for by the government, so their doctors are not graduating with massive debt. America also seriously overpays for pharmaceuticals.


    Let's take the cost of knee replacement in the UK - about £15,502 = $20,002.99 (USD) and that's going private. The same surgery in the US costs $49,500 before inpatient charges. The final bill is about $57,000.


    People pay into Social Security. How it's managed is down to how the government treats it. It's not like European nations don't have the very same issues with people paying into government pensions and some living on disability - hence the 64% figure receiving some sort of welfare. They can manage it without going into massive debt.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    I recall a time when Republicans and conservatives complained about the debt and deficits.

    Haven't heard much from them since 2016, yet they both are still growing.

    Gee, I wonder what's changed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    If that is really the case, then America needs to go to the UK or Europe and find out how to do it properly because clearly they are doing it wrong. Then again perhaps the problem is that it costs a fortune to become a doctor in America and rather than subsidize the cost of post-secondary education, it is preferable for the cost of healthcare to go through the roof. US doctors make about twice what UK doctors make, but then again while on average it costs £220,000 to train a doctor over their five-year degree in the UK (actually more than in the US), most of the training is paid for by the government, so their doctors are not graduating with massive debt. America also seriously overpays for pharmaceuticals.


    Let's take the cost of knee replacement in the UK - about £15,502 = $20,002.99 (USD) and that's going private. The same surgery in the US costs $49,500 before inpatient charges. The final bill is about $57,000.


    People pay into Social Security. How it's managed is down to how the government treats it. It's not like European nations don't have the very same issues with people paying into government pensions and some living on disability - hence the 64% figure receiving some sort of welfare. They can manage it without going into massive debt.
    Sure, the US could cut the perks in the US health care system. Such as private rooms. Private bathrooms with showers. Extra space for loved ones in your room. Any test that could possibly help. That sort of thing.

    I was in Rome with my ex-inlaws. The wife got sick so we took her to the hospital. It was free. But all the doc did was a visual examination, come up with a diagnosis and gave her some meds. In the US she would have had a battery of very expensive tests. I actually appreciate the approach the Italian doc took. But if you force that on the pampered American public they would revolt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Sense View Post
    I recall a time when Republicans and conservatives complained about the debt and deficits.

    Haven't heard much from them since 2016, yet they both are still growing.

    Gee, I wonder what's changed?
    I left the GOP in 2006 for that exact reason. They spend like drunken democrats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    All the so-called socialistic countries in the world provide all of those evil social safety nets without incurring a remotely similar level of indebtedness as America (and that's with universal healthcare!). It would seem that they are far more fiscally responsible without throwing the baby out with the bath water. What's America's excuse?

    What socialist countries? Venezuela?

    About all you can say is the US government is not very fically responsible. And if you read the visaul in the OP correctly, it is moderate in that regard: Size is not relevant, color is.
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