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  1. #31
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    Here's an example of how plain simple government incompetence leads to excessive debt.

    MTA Will Spend $249M On New Cops to Save $200M on Fare Evasion

    Guess this is why they don’t call it the Mathematics Transportation Authority.

    In a presentation to the MTA Board on Thursday morning, MTA Chief Financial Officer Bob Foran said that Gov. Cuomo’s controversial plan to hire 500 new MTA police officers will cost the agency $249 million over the next four years — partly financed by the $200 million the agency will save over that same period through those and other cops’ anti-fare evasion efforts.

    The $249 million price tag was eye-popping to activists, given Foran himself warned of a $426-million deficit projected for 2023....
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Ironic isn't it.
    Ironic how?


    Here's an interesting take on the US national debt.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntam.../#1bb238913707




    Ignore The Endless Talk Of Doom, Budget Deficits Really Don't Matter


  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Here's an example of how plain simple government incompetence leads to excessive debt. MTA Will Spend $249M On New Cops to Save $200M on Fare Evasion
    Incredible. Just incredible. It's not real money - it's gubmint money.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    Incredible. Just incredible. It's not real money - it's gubmint money.
    Givernmint money. Money we give it. And then some it mints.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

  5. #35
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    Another example.

    South Dakota's Anti-Meth Marketing Slogan Is Going Viral

    "A company called Broadhead LLC received $448,914 to design the campaign."

    ""Meth. We're on it," reads the campaign's logo in big, bold lettering that are plastered over an outline of the state."

    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    The Sage of Main Street's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    It would seem that they are far more fiscally responsible without throwing the baby out with the bath water. What's America's excuse?
    ​Nature Is Our Nest Egg



    Those who pretend to understand economics have been predicting an imminent collapse for decades. That's why Americans don't pay attention to austerity and sterility Doom and Gloom cult. Time to duel with a different banjo.
    On the outside, trickling down on the Insiders
    The born-rich hate and fear all other White people.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to The Sage of Main Street For This Useful Post:

    atheist4thecause (11-29-2019)

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotton1 View Post
    All things being relative the US is 16% of the worlds GDP and 20% of the worlds income. We are the largest economy in the world. Its still a high debt load, nevertheless. Our domestic debt to GDP is 104% which is far above acceptable levels generally about 60-70% depending on if an economy is an established one as ours is or an emerging economy. In the case of the latter 30-40% is a stretch. For comparison dsake it was 60% when Bush left office and 105% when Obama left. My concern is we are in an almost perfect world scenario with a debt to GDP of 104%. A hiccup here could be a disaster. The phrase " systemic collapse " could enter the picture.
    People have this idea that world wars are terrible for the economy. That is wrong. Worlds wars put people to work and requires equipment. That puts people to work, which drives the economy. What we have been doing is difficult, because it's nation building where we aren't creating a whole lot of jobs but we are pumping a whole lot of money in, and we're doing so over the course of a long period of time. The Iraq War was longer than World War II. Just think about that. And that's just Iraq, but we've been nation building all over, including majorly in Afghanistan. We may get a payoff in the future, but we haven't yet.

    What makes you think a hiccup could lead to a disaster and/or systematic collapse? What makes you think that running a debt is even bad? You don't get rich through fiscal responsibility, you get rich through investing money and running a debt. The USA doesn't seem to be having any issues with debt, nor does China seem to be. If debt causes collapse then tell me around what debt % we should expect to collapse at.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    All the so-called socialistic countries in the world provide all of those evil social safety nets without incurring a remotely similar level of indebtedness as America (and that's with universal healthcare!). It would seem that they are far more fiscally responsible without throwing the baby out with the bath water. What's America's excuse?
    You assume that taking on debt is a bad thing. Only a fiscal loser would think like that. Our excuse for taking on debt is that we like to be rich.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    The US debt to GDP ratio is over 100% i.e. 104.3%. That still means that it is spending more than it earns.
    That's not what it means. The government spending more than it earns is what running a deficit means.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Givernmint money. Money we give it. And then some it mints.
    What's wrong with government money? Standards such as the gold standard are completely pointless. A standard needs to be something that has a regular level of quantity, which means it has little use, which is why we used the gold standard. But because it has little use, that also means it's worthless when a collapse happens. Trust me, those piles of gold won't help anybody when everybody if everyone is starving to death from economic systems collapsing. Having food and resources would be much more useful. Commodities.

    Not to mention that we don't need to be going around destroying the planet for gold that is pretty useless and expensive to store.

  9. #38
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    The U.S. debt held by the public (17 trillion dollars or 76.4 % of the GDP) is considered more relevant that the total U.S. debt since it subtracts assets held in U.S. Treasury bonds or other securities from the total debt.

    This is from Wikipedia: As of November 2019, federal debt held by the public was $17.07 trillion and intragovernmental holdings were $6 trillion, for a total national debt of $23.08 trillion.[5] At the end of 2018, debt held by the public was approximately 76.4% of GDP,[6][7] and approximately 29% of the debt held by the public was owned by foreigners.[8] The United States has the largest external debt in the world. In 2017, the US debt-to-GDP ratio was ranked 43rd highest out of 207 countries.[9] The Congressional Budget Office forecast in April 2018 that debt held by the public will rise to nearly 100% of GDP by 2028, perhaps higher if current policies are extended beyond their scheduled expiration date.[10]

    The graph below shows where we are headed if no action is taken to reduce the growing debt. Publicly held U.S. debt (not total U.S. debt) is shown below. Various groups across the political spectrum
    submitted deficit reduction plans to reduce the growing debt and the result are plotted below.

    The national debt is not a big problem at the present time but it will grow into a problem in the future if no action is taken. Much of the future spending is expected to be on healthcare and interest on the national debt.
    Social security pays for itself and the surplus is projected to run out in 2037.

    Introduction. As a result of changes to Social Security enacted in 1983, benefits are now expected to be payable in full on a timely basis until 2037, when the trust fund reserves are projected to become exhausted



  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalmike View Post
    The U.S. debt held by the public (17 trillion dollars or 76.4 % of the GDP) is considered more relevant that the total U.S. debt since it subtracts assets held in U.S. Treasury bonds or other securities from the total debt.

    This is from Wikipedia: As of November 2019, federal debt held by the public was $17.07 trillion and intragovernmental holdings were $6 trillion, for a total national debt of $23.08 trillion.[5] At the end of 2018, debt held by the public was approximately 76.4% of GDP,[6][7] and approximately 29% of the debt held by the public was owned by foreigners.[8] The United States has the largest external debt in the world. In 2017, the US debt-to-GDP ratio was ranked 43rd highest out of 207 countries.[9] The Congressional Budget Office forecast in April 2018 that debt held by the public will rise to nearly 100% of GDP by 2028, perhaps higher if current policies are extended beyond their scheduled expiration date.[10]

    The graph below shows where we are headed if no action is taken to reduce the growing debt. Publicly held U.S. debt (not total U.S. debt) is shown below. Various groups across the political spectrum
    submitted deficit reduction plans to reduce the growing debt and the result are plotted below.

    The national debt is not a big problem at the present time but it will grow into a problem in the future if no action is taken. Much of the future spending is expected to be on healthcare and interest on the national debt.
    Social security pays for itself and the surplus is projected to run out in 2037.

    Introduction. As a result of changes to Social Security enacted in 1983, benefits are now expected to be payable in full on a timely basis until 2037, when the trust fund reserves are projected to become exhausted



    That's true, public debt is worse. We're living on borrowed time.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

  11. #40
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    My social secuiry notice says 2035. Not 2037

    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalmike View Post
    The U.S. debt held by the public (17 trillion dollars or 76.4 % of the GDP) is considered more relevant that the total U.S. debt since it subtracts assets held in U.S. Treasury bonds or other securities from the total debt.

    This is from Wikipedia: As of November 2019, federal debt held by the public was $17.07 trillion and intragovernmental holdings were $6 trillion, for a total national debt of $23.08 trillion.[5] At the end of 2018, debt held by the public was approximately 76.4% of GDP,[6][7] and approximately 29% of the debt held by the public was owned by foreigners.[8] The United States has the largest external debt in the world. In 2017, the US debt-to-GDP ratio was ranked 43rd highest out of 207 countries.[9] The Congressional Budget Office forecast in April 2018 that debt held by the public will rise to nearly 100% of GDP by 2028, perhaps higher if current policies are extended beyond their scheduled expiration date.[10]

    The graph below shows where we are headed if no action is taken to reduce the growing debt. Publicly held U.S. debt (not total U.S. debt) is shown below. Various groups across the political spectrum
    submitted deficit reduction plans to reduce the growing debt and the result are plotted below.

    The national debt is not a big problem at the present time but it will grow into a problem in the future if no action is taken. Much of the future spending is expected to be on healthcare and interest on the national debt.
    Social security pays for itself and the surplus is projected to run out in 2037.

    Introduction. As a result of changes to Social Security enacted in 1983, benefits are now expected to be payable in full on a timely basis until 2037, when the trust fund reserves are projected to become exhausted


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