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Thread: Ok, so Trump did it. Impeachable?

  1. #131
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    So far nothing he’s done warrants impeachment

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    Quote Originally Posted by NapRover View Post
    So far nothing he’s done warrants impeachment
    The Schiff Company doesn't think so.
    Wait until they get the bill for this boondoggle
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    lol
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Quote Originally Posted by NapRover View Post
    So far nothing he’s done warrants impeachment
    On June 13, 2019 the FEC chair released the statement "[...]It is illegal to solicit, accept, or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with a U.S. election[...]"

    On Trump’s July 25 phone call, Trump violated that law. He asked for a “favour” from Ukraine. He then goes on to ask for investigations into the DNC and Joe Biden. Quid pro quo is not needed to argue a violation. Merely asking (soliciting) is enough.

    The law that he violated is no longer an obscure one. We have been discussing the issue of foreign interference 24x7 since the Mueller probe began. The president knew or ought to have known that this was wrong, so incredibly, obviously wrong. And he did it anyway. Therefore, in my opinion, this is impeachable.

    That said, “Impeachable” is a term of art. It is whatever the house is willing to vote for. Period. “High crimes and misdemeanours” is effectively just a guide because no one can ever invalidate a vote from a congressman or congresswoman for voting “the wrong way.”


    “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the
    rest to me and the Republican congressmen”
    --Donald Trump

    Speaking to the Justice Department on Dec. 27, 2020. Conversation memorialized in then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue’s contemporaneous notes.



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    On Trump’s July 25 phone call, Trump violated that law. He asked for a “favour” from Ukraine.

    " do me a favor, wheres the best place to see the natural Ukrainian wildlife?"

    impeachable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toober View Post
    On Trump’s July 25 phone call, Trump violated that law. He asked for a “favour” from Ukraine.

    " do me a favor, wheres the best place to see the natural Ukrainian wildlife?"

    impeachable?
    It's almost as though you didn't bother reading the post before replying.
    He asked the Ukraine to investigate the Bidens and the DNC. Here is the text if you care to see it...

    Zelenskyy:
    [...] We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

    The President:
    I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it.
    [...]

    The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the persecution and
    a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me...

    Last edited by TheLiquidGuy; 11-21-2019 at 08:28 PM.


    “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the
    rest to me and the Republican congressmen”
    --Donald Trump

    Speaking to the Justice Department on Dec. 27, 2020. Conversation memorialized in then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue’s contemporaneous notes.



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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLiquidGuy View Post
    On June 13, 2019 the FEC chair released the statement "[...]It is illegal to solicit, accept, or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with a U.S. election[...]"

    On Trump’s July 25 phone call, Trump violated that law. He asked for a “favour” from Ukraine. He then goes on to ask for investigations into the DNC and Joe Biden. Quid pro quo is not needed to argue a violation. Merely asking (soliciting) is enough.

    The law that he violated is no longer an obscure one. We have been discussing the issue of foreign interference 24x7 since the Mueller probe began. The president knew or ought to have known that this was wrong, so incredibly, obviously wrong. And he did it anyway. Therefore, in my opinion, this is impeachable.

    That said, “Impeachable” is a term of art. It is whatever the house is willing to vote for. Period. “High crimes and misdemeanours” is effectively just a guide because no one can ever invalidate a vote from a congressman or congresswoman for voting “the wrong way.”
    *It is illegal to solicit, accept, or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with a U.S. election*

    Yup, that's what the law says. We also know that a campaign can pay foreign nationals for opo research (Steele Dossiers). And if ya want to make this about campaign violations, go for it Dems, impeach a President over campaign violations when you wouldn't even remove a President for perjury and OoJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLiquidGuy View Post
    It's almost as though you didn't bother reading the post before replying.
    He asked the Ukraine to investigate the Bidens and the DNC. Here is the text if you care to see it...

    Zelenskyy:
    [...] We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

    The President:
    I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it.
    [...]

    The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the persecution and
    a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me...

    you right, i dont bother to read your nonsense, especially since you post the same blather everywhere...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLiquidGuy View Post
    On June 13, 2019 the FEC chair released the statement "[...]It is illegal to solicit, accept, or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with a U.S. election[...]"

    On Trump’s July 25 phone call, Trump violated that law. He asked for a “favour” from Ukraine. He then goes on to ask for investigations into the DNC and Joe Biden. Quid pro quo is not needed to argue a violation. Merely asking (soliciting) is enough.

    The law that he violated is no longer an obscure one. We have been discussing the issue of foreign interference 24x7 since the Mueller probe began. The president knew or ought to have known that this was wrong, so incredibly, obviously wrong. And he did it anyway. Therefore, in my opinion, this is impeachable.

    That said, “Impeachable” is a term of art. It is whatever the house is willing to vote for. Period. “High crimes and misdemeanours” is effectively just a guide because no one can ever invalidate a vote from a congressman or congresswoman for voting “the wrong way.”
    I can understand questioning whether or not he in fact made the call, or in fact asked for assistance. What I don't understand is people suggesting that if he did so, it doesn't matter. But it does matter. It's very specifically against federal campaign law and using his office to pressure another government to dig up dirt on a political competitor, thereby attempting to obtain something of value is not only not permitted, it is also arguably an abuse of power. The very fact of asking for such a favor after taxpayer-funded military aid has been approved, is going to give the impression to that foreign government that said aid is being used as leverage. It's not like Trump doesn't have all manner of legitimate avenues through which to initiate an investigation without the personal involvement of either himself or a foreign head of state, if uncovering corruption is the only agenda.

    At best, if it is established with substantial evidence that he did make that call, it shows not only an absence of judgment but a glaring ignorance of federal campaign law and at worst it suggests that he thinks that as President he is above the law.
    Last edited by Dr. Who; 11-21-2019 at 09:09 PM.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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  15. #140
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    [QUOTE=hanger4;2742424]*It is illegal to solicit, accept, or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with a U.S. election*

    Yup, that's what the law says. We also know that a campaign can pay foreign nationals for opo research (Steele Dossiers).
    Hillary's campaign did not pay a foreign national. They paid Fusion GPS, who unbeknownst to her, used a foreign national. I have always thought you republicans were stretching it by using that argument. So once again, She did not pay foreign nationals. Oh and by the way, it was republicans who initially commissioned the opo research on Trump during the GOP primaries. Hillary just took it over after Trump won the nomination. Look it up.

    So, Yes, I would like to make it about campaign violations. We already know that Trump was the unnamed co-conspirator with Michael Cohen, who is now in jail for it. So if we can just re-open that case, and take away the presidents immunity, I am in.

    And if ya want to make this about campaign violations, go for it Dems, impeach a President over campaign violations when you wouldn't even remove a President for perjury and OoJ.
    Can you honestly tell me that if Trump is found to have committed perjury in his written testimony to Mueller you would support removing him? That is currently under investigation, so shoose your answer carefully.


    “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the
    rest to me and the Republican congressmen”
    --Donald Trump

    Speaking to the Justice Department on Dec. 27, 2020. Conversation memorialized in then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue’s contemporaneous notes.



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