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Thread: Ok, so Trump did it. Impeachable?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    It was a settlement. Generally, as I understand settlements, both parties come to an agreement to settle the matter, and the judge approves. It's like someone giving a Thanks on the forum, some make much of that but you can't really guess why thanks are given, could be anything. Same with settlements.

    All your words are mere desperate attempts to make Trump out to be evil.
    And lest it look like I'm defending Trump and not simply criticizing you all's substitution of opinion and hatred for facts, I'm done here.
    Wow, you can try to put lipstick on a pig. But it's still a pig...

    First, The judge ordered trump to pay $2 million to in fines. But then he was also ordered to pay an additional $2 million to real deal charities as to make up for stealing charity money in the first place. For God's sake, this guy essentially stole from charity. How can you still be defending him??? You are on the wrong side of history and you should be able to see that. Instead you give knee-jerk defences on technicalities.

    Trump is at least a sociopath and maybe a psychopath.

    Furthermore, we actually do know a lot about why the settlement was reached because from the article...
    According to the terms of the settlement, Trump has admitted to "personally misusing funds at the Trump Foundation" and has agreed to restrictions on future charitable giving.
    The lawsuit alleged that the foundation hosted such events and solicited charitable contributions to help bolster Trump's reputation as a philanthropist and influence the 2016 election.




    “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the
    rest to me and the Republican congressmen”
    --Donald Trump

    Speaking to the Justice Department on Dec. 27, 2020. Conversation memorialized in then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue’s contemporaneous notes.



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  3. #122
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    "Wow, you can try to put lipstick on a pig. But it's still a pig..." is the kind of BS I expected to arise from you guys sooner or later, and why I already bowed out. You all enjoy your "Trump is at least a sociopath and maybe a psychopath" TDS now.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Your #2 was "2) The (fake) Trump foundation."

    Fake is indeed an opinion, as I said ""Fake" is opinion for 2."
    I see. Fake is just an opinion.
    So, in your opinion then, this was a "real" charity. If it was a real one, would the judge have ordered Trump to pay an additional $2 million, because the charities never received any funds from the foundation?
    Would Trump have settled? Maybe. But less likely. Still, you got me on a technicality. I mistakenly thought you were referring to more important details like this one from the article:
    According to the terms of the settlement, Trump has admitted to "personally misusing funds at the Trump Foundation" and has agreed to restrictions on future charitable giving.
    "misusing" It's a polite way to say he "stole".



    Now you point to a settlement judgment. That's not a finding of guilt. It's a settlement.
    And?
    And you think he didn't do anything wrong?

    I never once used the word "guilty"
    When you resort to legal technicalities instead of judging Trump's moral character, it betrays your own moral character.
    Trump, a purported billionaire, stole money from charity. Let me say that again: A Billionaire stole from charity.
    That might not be evil. But he is obviously sick and damaging to society because of his sickness.



    The future hasn't happened yet you spoke of the future as if it had happened or would in fact happen. That is insinuation. Ditto inconclusive investigations.
    Did I speak as if it had happened? Nope. Here is what I said...

    If he doesn't win in 2020 it seems likely he will soon face indictment for:


    3) Tax Evasion

    4) Insurance Fraud


    Currently he under investigation for committing 5) perjury in his written responses to the Mueller investigation.



    You and Who are not arguing from facts.

    I must admit. This is not fair for republicans. They are forced to defend this guy who doesn't adhere to any norms, lies continuously, and has a corruption all around him.
    It is too easy for non-republicans to appear way smarter because of it.
    People can read this response and judge for themselves who is not arguing from facts.


    “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the
    rest to me and the Republican congressmen”
    --Donald Trump

    Speaking to the Justice Department on Dec. 27, 2020. Conversation memorialized in then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue’s contemporaneous notes.



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  6. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLiquidGuy View Post
    I see. Fake is just an opinion.
    So, in your opinion then, this was a "real" charity. If it was a real one, would the judge have ordered Trump to pay an additional $2 million, because the charities never received any funds from the foundation?
    Would Trump have settled? Maybe. But less likely. Still, you got me on a technicality. I mistakenly thought you were referring to more important details like this one from the article:

    "misusing" It's a polite way to say he "stole".




    And?
    And you think he didn't do anything wrong?

    I never once used the word "guilty"
    When you resort to legal technicalities instead of judging Trump's moral character, it betrays your own moral character.
    Trump, a purported billionaire, stole money from charity. Let me say that again: A Billionaire stole from charity.
    That might not be evil. But he is obviously sick and damaging to society because of his sickness.



    Did I speak as if it had happened? Nope. Here is what I said...

    If he doesn't win in 2020 it seems likely he will soon face indictment for:


    3) Tax Evasion

    4) Insurance Fraud


    Currently he under investigation for committing 5) perjury in his written responses to the Mueller investigation.






    I must admit. This is not fair for republicans. They are forced to defend this guy who doesn't adhere to any norms, lies continuously, and has a corruption all around him.
    It is too easy for non-republicans to appear way smarter because of it.
    People can read this response and judge for themselves who is not arguing from facts.
    You're merely repeating your opinion with a fallacious touch of mockery added.

    So I'll repeat:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    "Wow, you can try to put lipstick on a pig. But it's still a pig..." is the kind of BS I expected to arise from you guys sooner or later, and why I already bowed out. You all enjoy your "Trump is at least a sociopath and maybe a psychopath" TDS now.
    Give it up.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    You're merely repeating your opinion with a fallacious touch of mockery added.

    So I'll repeat:



    Give it up.
    Let's put it this way Chris - in order to avoid a protracted and embarrassing trial that he had no chance of winning, and an even more significant financial penalty he signed a document where he admitted to "personally misusing funds at the Trump Foundation". That's an admission of fraud. That's not opinion, it's fact. You can sneer and pretend like it's meaningless all you want, but there is a document in the files of the NY AG's office that is now a matter of public record.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Let's put it this way Chris - in order to avoid a protracted and embarrassing trial that he had no chance of winning, and an even more significant financial penalty he signed a document where he admitted to "personally misusing funds at the Trump Foundation". That's an admission of fraud. That's not opinion, it's fact. You can sneer and pretend like it's meaningless all you want, but there is a document in the files of the NY AG's office that is now a matter of public record.

    I'm reluctant to be dragged (trolled?) back into this but "personally misusing funds at the Trump Foundation" are not Trump's words but those of New York Attorney General Letitia James and represent her opinion.

    So once again we're left with one case out of the multitude of insinuations and accusations you and Guy cling to out of desperation driven by TDS.

    I'm not sneering. I'm merely pointing out how you two are not basing your judgments on facts.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I'm reluctant to be dragged (trolled?) back into this but "personally misusing funds at the Trump Foundation" are not Trump's words but those of New York Attorney General Letitia James and represent her opinion.

    So once again we're left with one case out of the multitude of insinuations and accusations you and Guy cling to out of desperation driven by TDS.

    I'm not sneering. I'm merely pointing out how you two are not basing your judgments on facts.
    @Chris you know a lack of evidence is proof of a crime to liberals. They show this to us every day.
    Opinions are facts as far as they are concerned.
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
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    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
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  11. #128
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    The lawsuit against the Donald J. Trump Foundation was filed in June 2018 — charging the Foundation’s directors with ignoring their oversight duties under New York’s charity laws and demonstrating how Mr. Trump repeatedly used Foundation money for his own personal, business, and political interests, including the unlawful coordination with his 2016 presidential campaign. In the first half of 2016 — at the height of the Republican primaries — Mr. Trump used Foundation money, raised from the public, to demonstrate his purported generosity and attract votes. Mr. Trump and his campaign doled out $500,000 at a campaign rally in the days leading up to the first primary election in the nation, the Iowa caucuses, then took credit for all $2.8 million in grants the Foundation made.

    In her decision ordering Mr. Trump to pay $2 million, Justice Saliann Scarpulla said, “…Mr. Trump breached his fiduciary duty to the Foundation and that waste occurred to the Foundation. Mr. Trump’s fiduciary duty breaches included allowing his campaign to orchestrate the Fundraiser, allowing his campaign, instead of the Foundation, to direct distribution of the Funds, and using the Fundraiser and distribution of the Funds to further Mr. Trump’s political campaign.”

    In total, the Office of the Attorney General has entered into four stipulation agreements as part of this settlement.

    Last year, in December 2018, following a court decision in favor of the Attorney General’s Office, the first stipulation took effect when the Trump Foundation agreed to shutter its doors and dissolve under court supervision. In October 2019, the Office of the Attorney General entered three additional stipulations. One stipulation ensures that the Foundation’s remaining assets will go to reputable charities approved by Attorney General James and that have no connection to Mr. Trump or his family members. Another stipulation ensures that Donald Trump, Jr., Ivanka Trump, and Eric Trump received training on the duties of officers and directors of charities so that they cannot allow the illegal activity they oversaw at the Trump Foundation to take place again.

    The third stipulation includes 19 paragraphs of factual admissions by Mr. Trump and the Foundation of illegal activity. Mr. Trump admitted that the Foundation’s board of directors — of which he was chair — failed to meet, failed to provide oversight over the Foundation, and failed to adopt legally required policies and procedures. He also admitted that these failures “contributed to the Foundation’s participation” in seven related party transactions described in the settlement document and in the Attorney General’s lawsuit.

    Mr. Trump and the Foundation have admitted key facts about their illegal political coordination with the Trump campaign, including that a purported Foundation fundraiser in January 2016 was in fact a campaign event, and that Foundation gave the Trump campaign complete control over the timing, amounts, and recipients of the $2.8 million raised through that event. Mr. Trump further admits that he and his campaign took credit for the grants that the Foundation made with funds that had been raised from the public. Justice Scarpulla noted in her decision that “Mr. Trump’s campaign, rather than the Foundation: (1) ‘planned’ and ‘organized’ the Fundraiser; and (2) ‘directed the timing, amounts, and recipients of the Foundation’s grants to charitable organizations supporting military veterans.’”

    Additionally, Mr. Trump admitted a number of key facts about the other self-dealing transactions he initiated as chair — specifically, that he used Foundation funds to settle legal obligations of companies he controlled, and that the Foundation paid for a portrait of Mr. Trump that cost $10,000. As separate piece of the settlement Donald Trump Jr. reimbursed the Foundation for the cost of the portrait. The settlement also requires the Foundation to be reimbursed $11,525 for sports paraphernalia and champagne purchased at a charity gala.

    Finally, the settlement agreement imposes a regime of restrictions on any future service by Mr. Trump on a charity’s board of directors, including a total ban on any self-dealing. Any charity he joins as a director must have a majority of independent directors, must engage counsel with expertise in New York not-for-profit law, and must engage the services of an accounting firm to monitor and audit the organization’s grants and expenses. If Mr. Trump forms a new charity, such an organization must comply with these requirements, and also report to the Office of the Attorney General for five years.
    https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019...dren-and-trump
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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  12. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    The lawsuit against the Donald J. Trump Foundation was filed in June 2018 — charging the Foundation’s directors with ignoring their oversight duties under New York’s charity laws and demonstrating how Mr. Trump repeatedly used Foundation money for his own personal, business, and political interests, including the unlawful coordination with his 2016 presidential campaign. In the first half of 2016 — at the height of the Republican primaries — Mr. Trump used Foundation money, raised from the public, to demonstrate his purported generosity and attract votes. Mr. Trump and his campaign doled out $500,000 at a campaign rally in the days leading up to the first primary election in the nation, the Iowa caucuses, then took credit for all $2.8 million in grants the Foundation made.
    [...]
    https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019...dren-and-trump
    Thanks for posting this. Do you want to make any comments about it?


    “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the
    rest to me and the Republican congressmen”
    --Donald Trump

    Speaking to the Justice Department on Dec. 27, 2020. Conversation memorialized in then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue’s contemporaneous notes.



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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLiquidGuy View Post
    Thanks for posting this. Do you want to make any comments about it?
    I know it's probably naive of me, but I would think that it should speak for itself. However, the portion that you bolded underscores the likelihood that Trump is prone to significant tax irregularities, apart from the fact that he has no problem pilfering the charity box to fund his displays of largess. In other words, he has no moral compass.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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