User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 42

Thread: Taboos Against Incest

  1. #1
    Points: 667,874, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433895
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    198,120
    Points
    667,874
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    32,198
    Thanked 81,484x in 55,025 Posts
    Mentioned
    2014 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Taboos Against Incest

    Let's try this again. WaPo has weighed in. Any deliberate derailing will get TBed.

    E. O. Wilson, The Social Conquest of Earth speaks of the Westermarck Effect where adults raised in close proximity the first few years of their lives are rarely sexually attracted to each other. This is true even for non-siblings raised together and does not apply to siblings raised apart. And it is true world-wide. The only exception to this evolutionary incest avoidance strategy is royal families who throughout history have interbred.

    The taboo was broadened to cousins culturally. The West won out when cousins stopped kissing looks at this:

    When the Church banned cousins marrying in the Middle Ages it may have led to some very unexpected results, from rising individualism to more generous blood donation, according to new research.

    It seems, perhaps counterintuitively, that the Roman Catholic Church’s rules on marriage have produced not only more children, but also more independent thinking and less conformity among the broader Western population.

    If these findings appear a little weird, that’s appropriate. The research is focused on the impact of the Church’s rules on marriage in Western, educated, industrialised, rich and democratic societies – a segment known by the acronym WEIRD.

    Jonathan Schulz and colleagues from George Mason University and Harvard University in the US wanted to know why people from WEIRD societies are, well, different.

    “Western Europeans and their cultural descendants in North America and Australia tend to be more individualistic, independent, analytically minded, and impersonally prosocial (e.g., trusting of strangers) while revealing less conformity, obedience, in-group loyalty, and nepotism,” the authors write in the journal Science....
    Mapping the end of incest and dawn of individualism illustrates this:


    Church exposure and kinship intensity around the world. (A) Exposure to the Medieval Western (blue) and Eastern (green) Churches at the country level. (B) The Kinship Intensity Index for ethnolinguistic groups around the world. Source: "The Church, Intensive Kinship, and Global Psychological Variation," Jonathan F. Schulz, Duman Bahrami-Rad, Jonathan P. Beauchamp, and Joseph Henrich
    And the WaPo comments, New study in Science: Medieval Catholicism explains the differences between cultures to this day:

    ...That story begins with kinship networks — the tribes and clans of densely connected, insular groups of relatives who formed most human societies before medieval times. Catholic Church teachings disrupted those networks, in large part by prohibiting marriage between relatives (which had been de rigueur), and eventually provoked a wholesale transformation of communities, changing the norm from large clans into small, monogamous nuclear families.

    That cultural overhaul, the researchers argue, prompted tremendous changes to human psychology.

    ...Countries exposed to Catholicism early have citizens today who exhibit qualities such as being more individualistic and independent, and being more trusting of strangers.

    ...Marrying a cousin was common practice in the large, close-knit networks of kin that dominated societies before Catholicism, the researchers said, and remains normal in many parts of the world today. Bahmari-Rad, one of the researchers, said that he was raised in Iran, where 30 percent of marriages are to first or second cousins, and that he was surprised when he moved to the United States: “I thought it’s weird that Westerners don’t fall in love with their cousins.”

    By contrast, the early Catholic Church was obsessed with preventing incest, even between distant relatives, Schulz said: “Thirteen out of 17 church councils in the 6th century were talking about incest and incest regulation.

    ...“I think this is really trying to get at where human culture comes from,” Talhelm said. But he wondered whether preexisting differences between Europeans and others laid the groundwork for the transformative church to take root: “Where did the church come from then? What caused the church?”
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    MrMike (11-18-2019)

  3. #2
    Points: 4,288, Level: 15
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 262
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Toober's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    277
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    576
    Points
    4,288
    Level
    15
    Thanks Given
    396
    Thanked 267x in 188 Posts
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    incest was a way of keeping the bloodlines intact...its tribal by nature...

  4. #3
    Points: 667,874, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433895
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    198,120
    Points
    667,874
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    32,198
    Thanked 81,484x in 55,025 Posts
    Mentioned
    2014 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Toober View Post
    incest was a way of keeping the bloodlines intact...its tribal by nature...
    Right, it was a fairly common practice for ancient to early royal families to marry brother and sister.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    MrMike (11-18-2019),Toober (11-18-2019)

  6. #4
    Points: 445,632, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Common's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    339120
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    66,766
    Points
    445,632
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    8,788
    Thanked 18,323x in 10,925 Posts
    Mentioned
    396 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Lets scoot forward to today, incest is disgusting and unnecessary in modern society. Its proven it create deformed children to various degrees and that includes same blood cousins comingling. Theres also emotional deformation

    Incest is alot more common today than people realize, ask any big city cop
    LETS GO BRANDON
    F Joe Biden

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Common For This Useful Post:

    MrMike (11-18-2019)

  8. #5
    Points: 7,766, Level: 21
    Level completed: 3%, Points required for next Level: 684
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    MrMike's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    3666
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Rent free in your mind....
    Posts
    600
    Points
    7,766
    Level
    21
    Thanks Given
    1,246
    Thanked 683x in 366 Posts
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Incest (or the effects of) might explain why so many in Royal families over history seemed so odd.
    Why do some liberals think it’s okay to wear blackface then call other people racists? 0

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to MrMike For This Useful Post:

    Common (11-18-2019),HawkTheSlayer (11-18-2019),IMPress Polly (11-19-2019),Toober (11-18-2019)

  10. #6
    Points: 123,366, Level: 85
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 2,684
    Overall activity: 60.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteran
    FindersKeepers's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    173984
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    35,702
    Points
    123,366
    Level
    85
    Thanks Given
    25,436
    Thanked 26,625x in 16,267 Posts
    Mentioned
    271 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Fascinating topic, and it makes it clear that nature reduces inbreeding by making siblings not attracted to one another if they've been raised together.

    Unfortunately, I don't think that same sentiment applies to parent/child relationships, although common sense and parental concern should tell them not to cross those lines.

    Health issues are a concern but probably not as bad as deformities from things like say, thalidomide.

    Incest is rooted in biblical theory -- after all -- where did all the other humans come from after Adam and Eve beget Cain and Abel? Cain's wife came from "Nod" but that either suggests other humans were walking the earth that were not subject to the Creation story, or Eve bore a girl child and incest ensued.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to FindersKeepers For This Useful Post:

    MrMike (11-18-2019)

  12. #7
    Points: 123,366, Level: 85
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 2,684
    Overall activity: 60.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteran
    FindersKeepers's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    173984
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    35,702
    Points
    123,366
    Level
    85
    Thanks Given
    25,436
    Thanked 26,625x in 16,267 Posts
    Mentioned
    271 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMike View Post
    Incest (or the effects of) might explain why so many in Royal families over history seemed so odd.
    Odd. And, sickly.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to FindersKeepers For This Useful Post:

    MrMike (11-18-2019)

  14. #8
    Points: 667,874, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433895
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    198,120
    Points
    667,874
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    32,198
    Thanked 81,484x in 55,025 Posts
    Mentioned
    2014 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    Fascinating topic, and it makes it clear that nature reduces inbreeding by making siblings not attracted to one another if they've been raised together.

    Unfortunately, I don't think that same sentiment applies to parent/child relationships, although common sense and parental concern should tell them not to cross those lines.

    Health issues are a concern but probably not as bad as deformities from things like say, thalidomide.

    Incest is rooted in biblical theory -- after all -- where did all the other humans come from after Adam and Eve beget Cain and Abel? Cain's wife came from "Nod" but that either suggests other humans were walking the earth that were not subject to the Creation story, or Eve bore a girl child and incest ensued.

    Right, it was biological evolution that created a taboo against sibling incest. Perhaps more profound though was the cultural change the Catholic Church introduced by expanding it to cousins.
    Last edited by Chris; 11-18-2019 at 02:35 PM.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    FindersKeepers (11-18-2019),MrMike (11-18-2019)

  16. #9
    Points: 64,730, Level: 62
    Level completed: 14%, Points required for next Level: 1,820
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    The Xl's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    196598
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    27,967
    Points
    64,730
    Level
    62
    Thanks Given
    6,255
    Thanked 19,793x in 11,974 Posts
    Mentioned
    433 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Incest is weird as $#@! but frankly, I don't care what people do with their lives

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to The Xl For This Useful Post:

    FindersKeepers (11-18-2019)

  18. #10
    Points: 4,288, Level: 15
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 262
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Toober's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    277
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    576
    Points
    4,288
    Level
    15
    Thanks Given
    396
    Thanked 267x in 188 Posts
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Right, it was a fairly common practice for ancient to early royal families to marry brother and sister.
    often with disastrous results...

    incest is also prevalent in arab nations with the same results...

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Toober For This Useful Post:

    HawkTheSlayer (11-18-2019),MrMike (11-18-2019)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts