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Thread: Has anyone changed his (or her) mind?

  1. #21
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    Retirednsmilin308's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Hence, IMHO they need a much more forceful message that they can't ignore.

    ...starting at one end of the capitol building and driving them all out at bayonet point?

    I am good with that.
    Forget about the Nazis. Look to much more recent failings to see what may affect the US.
    "Smart people learn from their mistakes. Even smarter people learn from the mistakes of others".
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    Collateral Damage (11-21-2019),Dr. Strangelove (11-22-2019),Dr. Who (11-21-2019),Peter1469 (11-23-2019)

  3. #22
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    Tahuyaman's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    My impression is that a lot of people are bored or turned off by this political theater. I doubt there are many people who have been moved one way or the other by it.
    If anything this is turning people away from the Democrats and helping Trump.



    Apparently theres no credible third party alternative who can capitalize on this political mess.

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  5. #23
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    pjohns's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    What would be fantastic (in every sense of the word) is if either no one went to the polls or everyone went and spoiled their ballots to suggest that until the terrible two parties can run someone worth the time and effort of their consideration, that the public will not play their stupid games. Better still, until they open up the playing field to third parties, they can take a hike.
    It would appear that the antecedent of "they" (in the final sentence) is "the terrible two parties."

    But just how is it that these two parties--sometimes accused of having a "duopoly" within the system--are actually guilty of keeping others out?

    Many do not wish to vote for a third-party candidate, for fear of "wasting" their respective votes. And, in a way, that is true: They will not be voting to help elect the preferable major candidate, from their perspective.

    If one votes primarily to send a message, then that is not so important. But if one votes primarily to elect the candidate that one prefers--even if it a "lesser of two evils" thing--then it is really all that matters.

    Anyway, I just cannot see how the two major parties are (somehow) conspiring to keep out anyone else.

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    pjohns's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retirednsmilin308 View Post
    My dreams are much simpler.

    I just wish they would answer the mail we send them with an actual thought out answer.
    Instead of some, "We are aware...." BS copy/paste.
    ...but most do not even send out those. They just ignore us and our letters.

    That tells me how much they think of us.
    In other words, it is just boilerplate--about as personal and thoughtful as the fundraising letters that I frequently receive.

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    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    It would appear that the antecedent of "they" (in the final sentence) is "the terrible two parties."

    But just how is it that these two parties--sometimes accused of having a "duopoly" within the system--are actually guilty of keeping others out?

    Many do not wish to vote for a third-party candidate, for fear of "wasting" their respective votes. And, in a way, that is true: They will not be voting to help elect the preferable major candidate, from their perspective.

    If one votes primarily to send a message, then that is not so important. But if one votes primarily to elect the candidate that one prefers--even if it a "lesser of two evils" thing--then it is really all that matters.

    Anyway, I just cannot see how the two major parties are (somehow) conspiring to keep out anyone else.

    They do conspire to keep third parties out of debates. The Libertarian and Green Parties sued over it but lost in court. Otherwise, not. It's like the market, where people vote with dollars and create monopoly-like corporations
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Collateral Damage (11-21-2019)

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    It would appear that the antecedent of "they" (in the final sentence) is "the terrible two parties."

    But just how is it that these two parties--sometimes accused of having a "duopoly" within the system--are actually guilty of keeping others out?

    Many do not wish to vote for a third-party candidate, for fear of "wasting" their respective votes. And, in a way, that is true: They will not be voting to help elect the preferable major candidate, from their perspective.

    If one votes primarily to send a message, then that is not so important. But if one votes primarily to elect the candidate that one prefers--even if it a "lesser of two evils" thing--then it is really all that matters.

    Anyway, I just cannot see how the two major parties are (somehow) conspiring to keep out anyone else.
    Well, there is the Commission on Presidential Debates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commis...ential_Debates
    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    They do conspire to keep third parties out of debates. The Libertarian and Green Parties sued over it but lost in court. Otherwise, not. It's like the market, where people vote with dollars and create monopoly-like corporations
    Does anyone really believe that "debates" (which are not really debates at all, in any classical sense of the word; but merely question-and-answer sessions) actually determine the voting preferences of the public?

    Note: Wikipedia notes that "in 2000, the CPD established a rule that for a candidate to be included in the national debates he or she must garner at least 15% support across five national polls."

    That does not really strike me as being unreasonable. (Unless, of course, one believes that we should actively try to gin up support for a third-party candidate.)
    Last edited by pjohns; 11-21-2019 at 05:28 PM.

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Well, there is the Commission on Presidential Debates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commis...ential_Debates
    Please see post #27 in this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    Does anyone really believe that "debates" (which are not really debates at all, in any classical sense of the word; but merely question-and-answer sessions) actually determine the voting preferences of the public?

    Note: Wikipedia notes that "in 2000, the CPD established a rule that for a candidate to be included in the national debates he or she must garner at least 15% support across five national polls."

    That does not really strike me as being unreasonable. (Unless, of course, one believes that we should actively try to gin up support for a third-party candidate.)

    Getting alternative views out in debates would likely not affect an immediate election but it would get other ideas out there.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    CaveDog's Avatar Senior Member
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    Voting Democrat has long been out of the question for me. The only decision affected is that of voting Republican (I.e. voting directly against a particular Dem) or voting third party in order to encourage alternatives. In recent years Dems have become so radical that I tend to vote Republican as a rule so you could say my mind is changed.

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