User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 32

Thread: The Roots of American Polarization

  1. #21
    Points: 32,272, Level: 43
    Level completed: 88%, Points required for next Level: 178
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    25000 Experience PointsVeteran
    The Sage of Main Street's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    15009
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    12,431
    Points
    32,272
    Level
    43
    Thanks Given
    9,384
    Thanked 2,249x in 1,927 Posts
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The topic is not really political.
    Oh really?
    On the outside, trickling down on the Insiders

    We won't live free until the Democrats, and their voters, live in fear.

  2. #22
    Points: 172,963, Level: 98
    Level completed: 83%, Points required for next Level: 687
    Overall activity: 49.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteran
    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    88553
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    51,915
    Points
    172,963
    Level
    98
    Thanks Given
    18,303
    Thanked 20,521x in 14,780 Posts
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Faith is, I suppose, one way to find non-contradictory consistency, but there are other ways. It requires an open mind, the openness that admits to your own contradictions when pointed out, rather than doggedly defending them.
    Some contradictions in the ways of life can be put off to "a time for every purpose under the sun"

  3. #23
    Points: 665,289, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 85.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433316
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    197,553
    Points
    665,289
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    31,984
    Thanked 80,905x in 54,720 Posts
    Mentioned
    2011 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Some contradictions in the ways of life can be put off to "a time for every purpose under the sun"
    Does your garden grow in the winter?
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  4. #24
    Points: 52,081, Level: 55
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 469
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    jet57's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    2378
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    19,121
    Points
    52,081
    Level
    55
    Thanks Given
    1,698
    Thanked 2,368x in 2,004 Posts
    Mentioned
    284 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Moral relativism has existed since the concept of morality was given a name i.e. you must treat your own community well, but it's perfectly acceptable to take from, abuse or kill strangers. Our entire geopolitical landscape on the planet has been based on this morally relativistic concept while the most professed pious moralists have accepted and encouraged this cognitively dissonant behavior out of self-interest and still do to this day.

    There is nothing logical about the law of non-contradiction unless you believe that mankind has already discovered all knowable facts and that there can be no advancement in philosophical, ethical and moral theory. In 1616, Galileo was accused of being a heretic for suggesting that the earth revolved around the sun. That was just over 500 years ago. A moment in time for humanity. The law of non-contradiction would suggest that Galileo was wrong because the accepted 'truth' at the time is that the entire universe revolved around the earth. There was a time when the 'truth' was that man could not fly. There was a time when the 'truth' was that malaria was a result of bad air (that's literally what malaria means). We have contradicted thousands, if not millions of so-called truths as we have evolved and we will continue to do so.
    THAT is the breakdown of our society. The Root of American polarization. The permission to take from and kill - an outside thinker... The monied interest have and will always push non contradiction; that is how power works. Contradictory views are are suppressed and all "knowable" facts will thereby never be discovered, until the revolution.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to jet57 For This Useful Post:

    Dr. Who (11-25-2019)

  6. #25
    Points: 52,081, Level: 55
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 469
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    jet57's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    2378
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    19,121
    Points
    52,081
    Level
    55
    Thanks Given
    1,698
    Thanked 2,368x in 2,004 Posts
    Mentioned
    284 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I can't say I'm surprised that "spiritual" folks would embrace a such a contradiction. That's not a shot at Dr. Who because we have at least half a dozen members who fit that description and they fall on both sides of the political spectrum. On the one hand, morality is ultimately subjective whether we mean that on the individual level, the level of civilization or culture or that of the entire species (e.g. the species ethic of Habermas). It is man-made. Man is both subject and object. They are adamant about this and that's fine. The cosmos may indeed be amoral with no order, no justice, no good and no evil. As a Christian I don't believe that. As a reasonable creature I think it decidedly unreasonable that men inhabit such a cosmos but I can't definitively say I am right and others are wrong. That said, this is the logical conclusion you would reach holding such a position. What bugs me is that virtually no one is willing to accept that conclusion. That's why see repeated references to a standard, a goal or an ideal with terms such as "evolution", "progress" and "advancement" but these terms could have no possible meaning in such a cosmos. Where are we going? What is the goal? What truth could this proposed standard or ideal possibly correspond to? It could only be what a group of men think in a particular time and place. In moral terms there could be no distinction between this morality and that of any other person or group past, present or future but, as I said, no one really accepts this let alone lives as if it were true. The atheists of yesteryear (e.g. Sartre) who, unlike the New Atheists, understood where their ideas led and were not afraid to say so. Who does that today? As I see it, the crux of the matter is human autonomy. There is 1) resistance to allowing it to be compromised in any way (Lucifer's sin IIRC) and 2) refusing to acknowledge what it entails.
    Subjectivism only works as a moral compass until someone else renders an opinion. The cosmos just is, with or without your (rhetorical) belief; it is both inside and outside and is not subject to morals; for what are morals - really. An opinion based on direct experience or education. A "group think" based on the desire to belong.

  7. #26
    Points: 665,289, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 85.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433316
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    197,553
    Points
    665,289
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    31,984
    Thanked 80,905x in 54,720 Posts
    Mentioned
    2011 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    THAT is the breakdown of our society. The Root of American polarization. The permission to take from and kill - an outside thinker... The monied interest have and will always push non contradiction; that is how power works. Contradictory views are are suppressed and all "knowable" facts will thereby never be discovered, until the revolution.

    And there we have it, folks, two lefties declare capitalism is a postmodern social construct, thereby demonstrating the very truth of the OP.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  8. #27
    Points: 174,797, Level: 99
    Level completed: 29%, Points required for next Level: 2,853
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience Points
    Dr. Who's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    870671
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gallifrey
    Posts
    69,104
    Points
    174,797
    Level
    99
    Thanks Given
    12,830
    Thanked 12,934x in 8,812 Posts
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    THAT is the breakdown of our society. The Root of American polarization. The permission to take from and kill - an outside thinker... The monied interest have and will always push non contradiction; that is how power works. Contradictory views are are suppressed and all "knowable" facts will thereby never be discovered, until the revolution.
    It's very discouraging that we learn so many facts but continue to act like our distant ignorant ancestors who at least had an excuse.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Dr. Who For This Useful Post:

    jet57 (11-26-2019)

  10. #28
    Original Ranter
    Points: 297,709, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 42.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Mister D's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    416530
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    117,870
    Points
    297,709
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    25,301
    Thanked 53,475x in 36,449 Posts
    Mentioned
    1102 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    It's very discouraging that we learn so many facts but continue to act like our distant ignorant ancestors who at least had an excuse.
    Considering the context this is a strange comment. What facts have we learned that our ancestors are ignorant of?
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  11. #29
    Points: 665,289, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 85.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433316
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    197,553
    Points
    665,289
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    31,984
    Thanked 80,905x in 54,720 Posts
    Mentioned
    2011 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Considering the context this is a strange comment. What facts have we learned that our ancestors are ignorant of?
    They are our ancestors and just are ignorant and unenlightened. It's remarkable they ever survived.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  12. #30
    Original Ranter
    Points: 297,709, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 42.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Mister D's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    416530
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    117,870
    Points
    297,709
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    25,301
    Thanked 53,475x in 36,449 Posts
    Mentioned
    1102 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    They are our ancestors and just are ignorant and unenlightened. It's remarkable they ever survived.
    Disdain for the past is characteristic of liberalism generally but what I find so exasperating are these claims of subjective morality and ultimate meaninglessness followed by explicitly stated beliefs in moral progress and a lament about man's current state. It makes no sense.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts