Members banned from this thread: Standing Wolf and jet57


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 77

Thread: Leftism Isnít a Religion, Itís Something Worse

  1. #1
    Points: 465,926, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 68.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    397786
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    150,785
    Points
    465,926
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    15,676
    Thanked 45,361x in 33,363 Posts
    Mentioned
    1725 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Leftism Isnít a Religion, Itís Something Worse

    OK, yea, Leftism Isn’t a Religion, It’s Something Worse sounds like a typical mock or taunt against the liberal left, but it's actually a serious analysis of the similarities and differences between religion and ideology, and this is posted on the serious side for serious discussion.

    Let's keep in mind how the liberal left mocks if not taunts religion. We have seen this in recent discussions of religion. I had that in mind as I read the essay, given the liberal left's dismissal of religion as superstition, and marveled how easy it is to prediction they will likewise eventually dismiss religious-like ideology.

    It has become common among today’s conservatives to call environmentalism, socialism, militant feminism, transgenderism, and other leftist ideologies the modern equivalents of religion. Whereas in the past, people treated the central ideas of these movements as ideas like any other—that is, subject to discussion and evaluation—now, people must treat them with the same reverence and respect as they would with religion.

    Considering the apparent zeal of climate-change activists and social-justice warriors, one can easily spot a few other similarities. Like religion, most of these movements have a transcendent idea akin to a deity, most have a community of sorts that will come together for a common purpose (mainly protesting), and most feature a kind of dogmatism distinguishing true from false believers....

    However, the similarities end there, and insisting that people treat these movements like religions does a disservice both to religion and the movement itself. In truth, they are really false idols, idealized fixations devoid of much meaning. This makes them something less than religions, in terms of their intellectual and spiritual content. Nevertheless, they are still problematic and capable of corrupting civilization—particularly a civilization that does all it can to dispense with religion altogether.

    At its most fundamental level, religion is a system of beliefs, in the form of a creed, while ideology usually consists of one belief, often in the form of a general notion. This leads the former to have a system of logic based on these core beliefs about God (a theology); the latter only has a singular belief that people can interpret however they like....

    Instead, most adherents of modern ideologies focus on certain narratives: “Humans, particularly the ones in first-world countries, are destroying the planet,” “The system is rigged and the rich are oppressing the poor,” or “The white patriarchy continues to hold down women and people of color at all levels.” Where they go with this depends less on logic and more on how much they care. Those who care deeply become activists joining and organizing various marches and sit-ins; those who care somewhat become “slacktivists” who periodically post articles about injustice on social media; and those who care a little may just vote Democrat and blithely ignore arguments from the other side.

    ....
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    stjames1_53 (11-19-2019)

  3. #2
    Points: 68,896, Level: 64
    Level completed: 7%, Points required for next Level: 2,054
    Overall activity: 39.0%
    Achievements:
    Tagger First ClassSocial50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    stjames1_53's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    41749
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    25,040
    Points
    68,896
    Level
    64
    Thanks Given
    44,473
    Thanked 12,767x in 9,298 Posts
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    OK, yea, Leftism Isn’t a Religion, It’s Something Worse sounds like a typical mock or taunt against the liberal left, but it's actually a serious analysis of the similarities and differences between religion and ideology, and this is posted on the serious side for serious discussion.

    Let's keep in mind how the liberal left mocks if not taunts religion. We have seen this in recent discussions of religion. I had that in mind as I read the essay, given the liberal left's dismissal of religion as superstition, and marveled how easy it is to prediction they will likewise eventually dismiss religious-like ideology.
    We get back to that thing about emotion and thought
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to stjames1_53 For This Useful Post:

    Chris (11-19-2019)

  5. #3
    Points: 11,321, Level: 25
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 429
    Overall activity: 15.0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registeredSocial10000 Experience Points
    jet57's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    643
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    3,401
    Points
    11,321
    Level
    25
    Thanks Given
    516
    Thanked 633x in 490 Posts
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    OK, yea, Leftism Isn’t a Religion, It’s Something Worse sounds like a typical mock or taunt against the liberal left, but it's actually a serious analysis of the similarities and differences between religion and ideology, and this is posted on the serious side for serious discussion.

    Let's keep in mind how the liberal left mocks if not taunts religion. We have seen this in recent discussions of religion. I had that in mind as I read the essay, given the liberal left's dismissal of religion as superstition, and marveled how easy it is to prediction they will likewise eventually dismiss religious-like ideology.
    I have to say that I wouldn't characterize the left as anti religion by a long shot; your source is "conservative" and such is an ideology as well that has always tended toward the Protestant religion in this country: the "WASP" as they've been historically described. The real problem of religion in this country, for those like myself and those in and outside of the "faith" as it's called, is legislative social engineering. That is to say using the law to "put God into all aspects of our society", as in education, healthcare, our judicial system, business, etc etc. The mocking" as you refer to it is based in the hypocrisies of the religious right and the illogical and unreasonable ways in which the "wasps" continue to mock, attack, attempt to legislate, i.e. force their ideology onto the rest of society while ignoring the first amendment to our constitution.

    "Conservatives" just never get this right and fail to learn from the past, thus the train shall never meet.

  6. #4
    Points: 21,202, Level: 35
    Level completed: 38%, Points required for next Level: 748
    Overall activity: 99.2%
    Achievements:
    10000 Experience PointsSocial1 year registered
    Cotton1's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    2223
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Memphis and Arkansas
    Posts
    6,484
    Points
    21,202
    Level
    35
    Thanks Given
    2,251
    Thanked 2,215x in 1,668 Posts
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    OK, yea, Leftism Isn’t a Religion, It’s Something Worse sounds like a typical mock or taunt against the liberal left, but it's actually a serious analysis of the similarities and differences between religion and ideology, and this is posted on the serious side for serious discussion.

    Let's keep in mind how the liberal left mocks if not taunts religion. We have seen this in recent discussions of religion. I had that in mind as I read the essay, given the liberal left's dismissal of religion as superstition, and marveled how easy it is to prediction they will likewise eventually dismiss religious-like ideology.
    I have noticed many liberals go out of their way not to acknowledge God /heaven as not to offend their fellow libs. I noticed it here at the forum. In the "poems on the fly" thread I will get " thanks" from libs. Im not being critical of them because some are my friends. But...if I write a poem mentioning God, Angels , Heaven it is convienantly skipped over in the " thanks " dept. Its really obvious

  7. #5
    Points: 465,926, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 68.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    397786
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    150,785
    Points
    465,926
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    15,676
    Thanked 45,361x in 33,363 Posts
    Mentioned
    1725 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I have to say that I wouldn't characterize the left as anti religion by a long shot; your source is "conservative" and such is an ideology as well that has always tended toward the Protestant religion in this country: the "WASP" as they've been historically described. The real problem of religion in this country, for those like myself and those in and outside of the "faith" as it's called, is legislative social engineering. That is to say using the law to "put God into all aspects of our society", as in education, healthcare, our judicial system, business, etc etc. The mocking" as you refer to it is based in the hypocrisies of the religious right and the illogical and unreasonable ways in which the "wasps" continue to mock, attack, attempt to legislate, i.e. force their ideology onto the rest of society while ignoring the first amendment to our constitution.

    "Conservatives" just never get this right and fail to learn from the past, thus the train shall never meet.

    You wouldn't so characterize what you just did in your anti-religion screed.

    See also Survey: Christianity declining rapidly in US and Blaming Religious Right for Christian Decline.


    Conservatism is not an ideology. "Conservatism is a philosophy, not an ideology. It is the collective wisdom of conservatives such as Evans, Kirk, Goldwater, Buckley, and Abraham Lincoln, who when asked what conservatism is replied, “Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried?” Conservatism stands on the solid rock of the American Founding and Western civilization. Its overriding principle is “ordered liberty...." @ What Is Conservatism?
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    stjames1_53 (11-20-2019)

  9. #6
    Points: 465,926, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 68.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    397786
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    150,785
    Points
    465,926
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    15,676
    Thanked 45,361x in 33,363 Posts
    Mentioned
    1725 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cotton1 View Post
    I have noticed many liberals go out of their way not to acknowledge God /heaven as not to offend their fellow libs. I noticed it here at the forum. In the "poems on the fly" thread I will get " thanks" from libs. Im not being critical of them because some are my friends. But...if I write a poem mentioning God, Angels , Heaven it is convienantly skipped over in the " thanks " dept. Its really obvious
    Some of this is tribal.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

  10. #7
    Points: 18,707, Level: 33
    Level completed: 15%, Points required for next Level: 943
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    William's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    85891
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    3,798
    Points
    18,707
    Level
    33
    Thanks Given
    2,673
    Thanked 2,749x in 1,648 Posts
    Mentioned
    295 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    OK, yea, Leftism Isnít a Religion, Itís Something Worse sounds like a typical mock or taunt against the liberal left, but it's actually a serious analysis of the similarities and differences between religion and ideology, and this is posted on the serious side for serious discussion.

    Let's keep in mind how the liberal left mocks if not taunts religion. We have seen this in recent discussions of religion. I had that in mind as I read the essay, given the liberal left's dismissal of religion as superstition, and marveled how easy it is to prediction they will likewise eventually dismiss religious-like ideology.
    I honestly don't know who and what you mean by the 'liberal left' - can you explain? This whole 'right-left' thing just seems like a form of tribalism to me.

    As for religion, it is a form of spiritual belief which should be respected as long as it is not imposed on anyone who does not share those beliefs. I come from a family where my mum is religious and my dad is not - but that doesn't seem to be a problem with them. I find it easy to respect anyone's beliefs, and to defend their right to hold those beliefs. I don't consider religious beliefs to be superstition, and if they work for most people - great!

    But they are beliefs - something like how I believed that my mum and dad were the best mum and dad in the world when I was little - and are neither based upon fact nor capable of being proved or disproved. They are a personal thing, and should both be regarded and respected as such - and anyway, why should anyone want to be hurtful enough to criticise someone else's deeply held beliefs? None of us know whether God exists or any of that stuff, but what harm is there in believing it to be true?

    The only possible harm can come from insisting others share your beliefs, and to make those beliefs a part of civic law.
    Oh, I wish I were a glow worm,
    for a glow worm's never glum,
    'cause how can you be grumpy
    when the sun shines out your bum!

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to William For This Useful Post:

    Ethereal (11-27-2019),Standing Wolf (12-08-2019),The Sage of Main Street (11-20-2019)

  12. #8
    Points: 465,926, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 68.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    397786
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    150,785
    Points
    465,926
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    15,676
    Thanked 45,361x in 33,363 Posts
    Mentioned
    1725 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    I honestly don't know who and what you mean by the 'liberal left' - can you explain? This whole 'right-left' thing just seems like a form of tribalism to me.

    As for religion, it is a form of spiritual belief which should be respected as long as it is not imposed on anyone who does not share those beliefs. I come from a family where my mum is religious and my dad is not - but that doesn't seem to be a problem with them. I find it easy to respect anyone's beliefs, and to defend their right to hold those beliefs. I don't consider religious beliefs to be superstition, and if they work for most people - great!

    But they are beliefs - something like how I believed that my mum and dad were the best mum and dad in the world when I was little - and are neither based upon fact nor capable of being proved or disproved. They are a personal thing, and should both be regarded and respected as such - and anyway, why should anyone want to be hurtful enough to criticise someone else's deeply held beliefs? None of us know whether God exists or any of that stuff, but what harm is there in believing it to be true?

    The only possible harm can come from insisting others share your beliefs, and to make those beliefs a part of civic law.
    Hi, William, how are you?

    For our purposes the liberal-left are those who are anti-tradition, here anti-religion--see my response to jet for example and follow links. The liberal-left are also those who believe in ideologies.

    I would agree, religion should be either natural as it was in ancient polytheistic times or chosen by free will in modern monotheistic times. But then shouldn't liberal-left ideological beliefs also be voluntary and not mandated by law and backed by the full force of the government?
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    The Sage of Main Street (11-20-2019),William (11-20-2019)

  14. #9
    Points: 145,013, Level: 91
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 1,637
    Overall activity: 22.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialOverdrive50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupVeteran
    Green Arrow's Avatar Overlord
    Karma
    619808
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    47,304
    Points
    145,013
    Level
    91
    Thanks Given
    53,983
    Thanked 24,557x in 16,115 Posts
    Mentioned
    1663 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quick thoughts to subscribe and I can go a little more in-depth tomorrow:

    I think the relationship between the political spectrum and the religious spectrum is a lot different than it appears. It certainly does seem like the Republicans/conservatives are the inherently religious party, and Democrats/liberals are anti-religion, but Iíve personally (and this is anecdote territory here) noticed what is, to me at least, an interesting shift. Over the last ten years, Iíve started encountering more liberals/leftists who adhered to some religion or another, and more conservatives/rightists embracing atheism.

    As I said, this is anecdotal for me, I only cite it because I consume news from a variety of different POVs and deliberately place myself in positions to interact with people of all different backgrounds. Overall, I think it may just be a combination of factors: that religion on the whole is declining in the U.S. and the world at large, and that Christians tend to make up the larger religious demographic of the GOP while other various religions take up some of that space on the Democratic side (thus making atheists in the GOP more noticeable, while the decline of religion wouldnít be felt as much on the Democratic side because there are overall just more religious backgrounds to encounter).

    I donít know, I guess Iím mostly just thinking out loud here. Itís an interesting discussion for sure.
    "A mature person is one who does not think only in absolutes, who is able to be objective even when deeply stirred emotionally, who has learned that there is both good and bad in all people and all things, and who walks humbly and deals charitably with the circumstances of life, knowing that in this world no one is all-knowing and therefore all of us need both love and charity."
    - Eleanor Roosevelt (1884-1962), American social activist and First Lady of the United States

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Green Arrow For This Useful Post:

    Mister D (11-20-2019)

  16. #10
    Points: 465,926, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 68.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    397786
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    150,785
    Points
    465,926
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    15,676
    Thanked 45,361x in 33,363 Posts
    Mentioned
    1725 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Arrow View Post
    Quick thoughts to subscribe and I can go a little more in-depth tomorrow:

    I think the relationship between the political spectrum and the religious spectrum is a lot different than it appears. It certainly does seem like the Republicans/conservatives are the inherently religious party, and Democrats/liberals are anti-religion, but I’ve personally (and this is anecdote territory here) noticed what is, to me at least, an interesting shift. Over the last ten years, I’ve started encountering more liberals/leftists who adhered to some religion or another, and more conservatives/rightists embracing atheism.

    As I said, this is anecdotal for me, I only cite it because I consume news from a variety of different POVs and deliberately place myself in positions to interact with people of all different backgrounds. Overall, I think it may just be a combination of factors: that religion on the whole is declining in the U.S. and the world at large, and that Christians tend to make up the larger religious demographic of the GOP while other various religions take up some of that space on the Democratic side (thus making atheists in the GOP more noticeable, while the decline of religion wouldn’t be felt as much on the Democratic side because there are overall just more religious backgrounds to encounter).

    I don’t know, I guess I’m mostly just thinking out loud here. It’s an interesting discussion for sure.

    See Blaming Religious Right for Christian Decline where it's found that Christianity is in decline but mainly for liberals.

    The point here, however, is less a political contrast than a religious one, that is between religious beliefs and religious-like ideological beliefs.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Green Arrow (11-20-2019),stjames1_53 (11-20-2019)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Single Sign On provided by vBSSO