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Thread: Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

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    FindersKeepers's Avatar Senior Member
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    Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

    Hopefully, the media will catch up.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#2cf015ce12d6
    Journalists and activists alike have an obligation to describe environmental problems honestly and accurately, even if they fear doing so will reduce their news value or salience with the public. There is good evidence that the catastrophist framing of climate change is self-defeating because it alienates and polarizes many people. And exaggerating climate change risks distracting us from other important issues including ones we might have more near-term control over.
    First, no credible scientific body has ever said climate change threatens the collapse of civilization much less the extinction of the human species.
    That's really the point -- journalists don't want to report the facts because they might be called "deniers" or be left behind career-wise.

    So much biased media these days. It really shouldn't be that way.
    ""A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" ~George Bernard Shaw

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    Orion Rules's Avatar Senior Member
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    Plant farms and animal sanctuaries with just compensation: Genesis 1:29-30, 2-3, Lev. 24:18-22, Psalm 50, Isaiah 1, 11:6-9, 65, 66, Daniel 1, Hosea 2:18, Revelation 20-22.

    Creation of horses: Zechariah 6:1-8, 14:20. Wild Horses, burros persecuted, parted out in violation of Public Law 92-195:
    https://twitter.com/WildHorseEdu

    Jesus was a Vegetarian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx6J6jh1Dzo

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    gamewell45's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FindersKeepers View Post
    Hopefully, the media will catch up.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#2cf015ce12d6




    That's really the point -- journalists don't want to report the facts because they might be called "deniers" or be left behind career-wise.

    So much biased media these days. It really shouldn't be that way.
    The media is all about making money--lots of it--for their shareholders/owners. All else is secondary.
    God Bless America, God Bless our Military and God Bless the Police who defended the country against the insurgents on January 6, 2021

    Think 3rd party for 2024 folks. Clean up America.

    Once I tell you that we agree to disagree there will be no more discussion between us in the thread so please don't waste your time continuing to argue your points because I will not respond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell45 View Post
    The media is all about making money--lots of it--for their shareholders/owners. All else is secondary.
    And yet newspapers all across the country are going out of business. While Television broadcast keeps losing viewers and money.
    History does not long Entrust the care of Freedom, to the Weak or Timid!!!!! Dwight D. Eisenhower ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    And yet newspapers all across the country are going out of business. While Television broadcast keeps losing viewers and money.
    You probably didn't know this but there is more to the media then just television and newspapers. You've got radio, the internet, in addition to the newspapers (many are now online media services) and television (most of which are making money contrary to what you say).
    God Bless America, God Bless our Military and God Bless the Police who defended the country against the insurgents on January 6, 2021

    Think 3rd party for 2024 folks. Clean up America.

    Once I tell you that we agree to disagree there will be no more discussion between us in the thread so please don't waste your time continuing to argue your points because I will not respond.

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    I read the entire article and agree with most of it. I don't agree with: "All of this helps explain why IPCC anticipates climate change will have a modest impact on economic growth. By 2100, IPCC projects the global economy will be 300 to 500% larger than it is today. Both IPCC and the Nobel-winning Yale economist, William Nordhaus, predict that warming of 2.5°C and 4°C would reduce gross domestic product (GDP) by 2% and 5% over that same period." I don't know what the reference point is for 2.5 degree C. and 4.0 degree C. warming. I'll assume that it is from the late 19th century. I think that the economic affects will be more severe and the potential for several meters of sea level rise will be high. Most of that sea level rise would occur after the year 2100. Severe weather
    coupled with a meter or more of sea level rise could be catastrophic for many urban areas. I don't know about the practicality or cost of building sea walls to protect areas prone to sea level rise or
    if that was figured into the economic cost.

    Here is an opinion from Wikipedia - William Nordhaus.
    Criticisms[edit]

    Economist Professor Steve Keen has severely criticized Nordhaus work and said that his claim that a 4°C increase in global temperature over pre-industrial levels is only going to reduce GDP per capita by between 2% and 4% is nonsense. Keen disagrees that Nordhaus's "Damage Function" should be a quadratic equation. To show how absurd it is he says that since his damage function is symmetrical "it predicts precisely the same level of damage to GDP from a fall of, for example, 4°C in the global average temperature, as it does for a rise of 4°C." If we try to apply the function to a period we had 20,000 years ago, during the last Ice Age, where countries like Canada, Ireland, Scotland, northern Germany, Poland, Denmark, Norway, and Sweden were under a kilometer or more of ice, the function would also estimate a reduction of GDP by 2% and 4%. [32]
    Professor Steve Keen's also gave a presentation "Flawed Approaches (and a New Approach) to Environmental Challenges" at the OECD Conference "Averting Systemic Collapse" in Paris on September 18th 2019 criticizing in detail why he believes Nordhaus's work is fatally flawed. In one of his slides, he shows that 4°C of warming would mean that approximately 6.7 billion people die, which is incompatible with the idea that GDP would only be reduced by a few per cent. [33]
    Others have also pointed out that climate scientists and ecologists have a very negative opinion of Nordhaus. Dr. Jason Hickel, who researches ecological economics, writes that "Many believe that the failure of the world’s governments to pursue aggressive climate action over the past few decades is in large part due to arguments that Nordhaus has advanced." One of his criticisms is that Nordhaus uses a very high discount rate which allows him to argue that we shouldn’t reduce emissions too quickly, because the economic cost to people today will be higher than the benefit of protecting people in the future. [34]
    Most climate scientists assume non-linear impacts [35]. This had not been properly accounted for by Nordhaus in the 1980s, when less was known about climate change:
    On the first condition, there is no convincing evidence of which I am aware that the effects of CO2 are known to be highly nonlinear. Possible exceptions are the melting of the Arctic sea-ice pack and disintegration of the West Antarctic ice sheet. These would surely have highly nonlinear effects, but (particularly for the second) we do not have clear ex-ante knowledge of where (or when) the nonlinearity will arise. Put differently, if our ex-ante (or judgmental) probability of such discontinuous events is smooth, then from a decision-maker's perspective the expected consequences are not highly non-linear and the presence of uncertainly probably does not change the best guess strategy markedly.


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    Do any of these models project that humans will invent stuff that will flow thru the economy? I would expect not. The Apollo program gave us a 26:1 roi. As science advances to deal with changing conditions (whatever the cause) we will create economic growth. No where near Apollo- but that is what our moon and Mars missions will accomplish.

    Their is no doom in our immediate future.
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    We cannot stop from sea levels becoming higher which is followed by low sea levels. This is the cycle of this planet long before we were around. The climate change alarmist are doing this to steal money out of our pocket so they can use it against us later. They only way to reserve our resources and save energy is by drastically reducing the world's populations. No political figure would dare make that statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barb012 View Post
    We cannot stop from sea levels becoming higher which is followed by low sea levels. This is the cycle of this planet long before we were around. The climate change alarmist are doing this to steal money out of our pocket so they can use it against us later. They only way to reserve our resources and save energy is by drastically reducing the world's populations. No political figure would dare make that statement.
    We are in between ice ages. The sea levels will drastically drop when we enter the next one. The coming mini-ice age may drop sea levels slightly. But it will play havoc on our agriculture. Figure out how to adapt. Pat the alarmists on the head and send them on their way.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell45 View Post
    The media is all about making money--lots of it--for their shareholders/owners. All else is secondary.
    Not to be difficult but " to make money " is the entire concept of a business. Preferred amount as you said " lots of it. All you can." In that manner one can justify the risk , the capital outlay, the cost of capital
    Loss of use of capital ( money that could have bee used in other areas that is now tied up in this.endeavor. oh..if u started your business.ran it and have not used or obtained the use
    Of other peoples money. Go ahead , run it like a woodchipper and feed mit money..thats one thing.
    But . if you have shareholder, creditors.you may also have a legal.oblugation.to put forth your " all you can" effort
    Last edited by Cotton1; 12-02-2019 at 12:12 AM.
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