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Thread: Historians’ reaction to the 1619 Project

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post
    I can at least respect the old guard for being more consistent. The SJW socialists don't even seem to grasp the basics of economics.
    I find more traditional critiques of capitalism interesting. What many leftists don't realize is that some of the themes we associate with Marxists and socialists were first articulated by European, specifically French, conservatives. The problem with Marxism is that as an economic theory and political theory it's simply false.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I find more traditional critiques of capitalism interesting. What many leftists don't realize is that some of the themes we associate with Marxists and socialists were first articulated by European, specifically French, conservatives. The problem with Marxism is that as an economic theory and political theory it's simply false.
    Because Marx's economic theory is based on capitalism. It simply modified the capitalist model, he got from Adam Smith and David Ricardo, by removing the owners and putting the workers in charge, and thereby increase productivity.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    jet57's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Because Marx's economic theory is based on capitalism. It simply modified the capitalist model, he got from Adam Smith and David Ricardo, by removing the owners and putting the workers in charge, and thereby increase productivity.
    Marx's economic theory was "labor theory". Labor is capitalism broken down to it's lowest common denominator, so in THAT sense you are correct. What Marx did was remove the nobility factor; that which brought about the title of the Robber Baron for instance. Private property was used in western Europe, from the age of feudalism to oppress and suppress those who owned none: thus the Russian revolution, the French Revolution, the American Revolution and on and on. Oppression and suppression of human beings in the American colonies ended slavery eighty nine years after we declared our independence, a very very quick end to an industry that was really thousands of years old. The notion that this country entertained slavery for over 400 years is just nonsense. But it was THAT labor that we made real: that labor that Marx was talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Marx's economic theory was "labor theory". Labor is capitalism broken down to it's lowest common denominator, so in THAT sense you are correct. What Marx did was remove the nobility factor; that which brought about the title of the Robber Baron for instance. Private property was used in western Europe, from the age of feudalism to oppress and suppress those who owned none: thus the Russian revolution, the French Revolution, the American Revolution and on and on. Oppression and suppression of human beings in the American colonies ended slavery eighty nine years after we declared our independence, a very very quick end to an industry that was really thousands of years old. The notion that this country entertained slavery for over 400 years is just nonsense. But it was THAT labor that we made real: that labor that Marx was talking about.
    Yes, Smith and Ricardo's labor theory of value. Since debunked and no onger held.

    Labor is not capitalism.

    From that error on you veer off into more error much the same way Marx did in his historical interpretations.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Yes, Smith and Ricardo's labor theory of value. Since debunked and no onger held.

    Labor is not capitalism.

    From that error on you veer off into more error much the same way Marx did in his historical interpretations.
    Nope: you don't know European history; that's very clear. And labor IS capitalism: "this for that"... That's what capitalism IS. Marx's labor theory was to spread "capital for labor" amongst the working people. Read up on "The Diggers".

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