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Thread: ‘Democratic socialist’ policies made the poor poorer: Study

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    The free market reduces the wealth of everyone dude. If money is available, margins go UP. When was the last time that poor in THIS country were out buying homes at reasonable prices? See, between you and the rest of the far right BSing and not listening to fact and reason, (as for your gif) I'M the guy in the middle.
    No, you're not.

    If you say this:

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    The free market reduces the wealth of everyone dude.
    Then you might think this:

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I'M the guy in the middle.
    But you actually aren't.

    Read I, Pencil and then start reading about why governments are really ineffective at allocating resources.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

    Resources allocated by people spending their own money in competitive markets rather than being taxed and then spent by state officials spending other people’s money in political settings.

    When the majority of economic decisions are made by government, the impact to individual incentives is such that economies begin to stagnate. That's why there's a fundamental distinction between welfare for poor people and a comprehensive welfare state.
    Last edited by Newpublius; 12-08-2019 at 08:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newpublius View Post
    Europe being destroyed by war didn't make the US prosperous. In fact, such misfortune hurt the US. Just because we represent a smaller percentage of world GDP today doesn't mean the US GDP isn't far, far greater today than in 1945. We are.

    War always imposes economic hardships. Such hardships were naturally felt much more acurately in the Soviet Union and war torn Europe of course, but even in the US there were genuine shortages, rationing, etc.
    During the war and immediately following, yes, but after we got our feet we became the world's great producer: there were no others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newpublius View Post
    No, you're not.

    If you say this:



    Then you might think this:



    But you actually aren't.

    Read I, Pencil and then start reading about why governments are really ineffective at allocating resources.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

    Resources allocated by people spending their own money in competitive markets rather than being taxed and then spent by state officials spending other people’s money in political settings.

    When the majority of economic decisions are made by government, the impact to individual incentives is such that economies begin to stagnate. That's why there's a fundamental distinction between welfare for poor people and a comprehensive welfare state.

    Exactly, when you give it away, you affect incentives and produce opportunity costs.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    During the war and immediately following, yes, but after we got our feet we became the world's great producer: there were no others.
    Yes there was a time when the US accounted for 50% of world GDP.

    It wasn't because there were no others, it was because the world had suffered a major calamity.

    Still, half of GDP was elsewhere of course, but even aside from that, the war, even though it made our relative share of world GDP very, very high, made the US poorer than it otherwise would be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's" simply means that if you want to be a part of a "government society", then give to and participate IN that government as far as it goes. But your heart is given unto God.

    Wiki a lousy source for anything. If you're going to try and quote educational work, then never use wiki.
    If you have a bone to pick with wikipedia, examine the primary sources cited. Do you have a problem with those?

    Nevertheless, participating in government does not necessitate socialism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Especially Japanese Americans.
    *insert Friday "DAMN" scene*

    Very true. I don't see many Japanese Americans that long for the days of FDR, for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    America experienced a surge in prosperity because we had no other competition: we made and sold EVERYTHING.

    You're just so shallow on world history.
    While it is true that we were well positioned to produce a lot of things at that point, we never would have produced as much if we hadn't shifted to more capitalistic policies at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post
    *insert Friday "DAMN" scene*

    Very true. I don't see many Japanese Americans that long for the days of FDR, for sure.
    Yet, FDR is still a hero of the left, to this day. Even paying homage to the POS by naming their signature socialist plan "The Green New Deal".
    Cutesy Time is OVER

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The source is a person. His name is REV. BEN JOHNSON.

    Oh, I give up, logic is not something you're familiar with.

    Refute the facts or begone lefty!

    Sorry, the source is a conservative/libertarian quasi-PAC ACTON under the guise of being Christian, althouh this “Dr” Johnson is a nutcase who writes for Lifesite news, Newsmax and other fake news purveyors.

    https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Acton_Institute


    The Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty (founded 1990) is a Classical Liberal think tank, part of the Atlas Economic Research Foundation network, which promotes laissez-faire economics and public policy within a Christian framework. According to its website, the Acton Institute's goal is "to promote a free and virtuous society characterized by individual liberty and sustained by religious principles."[1] It is an associate member of the State Policy Network (SPN).


    Contents






    Mission and Positions


    The Acton Institute "seeks to articulate a vision of society that is both free and virtuous, the end of which is human flourishing."[2]
    The group is both pro-religious and pro-market. Director of Research Samuel Gregg said in an interview with the National Catholic Register that "both the Church and the world of economics certainly need each other. The Church needs to take seriously the insights of economics, especially when it comes to addressing poverty, while economics as a discipline needs people to remind it of all the moral and spiritual realities that don’t fit well into the models employed by most mainstream economists."[3]


    News and Controversies


    Acton Institute Called Out for Blocking Action on Climate Change

    In July of 2016, nineteen U.S. Senators delivered a series of speeches denouncing climate change denial from 32 organizations with links to fossil-fuel interests, including the Acton Institute.[4] Sen. Whitehouse (RI-D), who led the effort to expose "the web of denial" said in his remarks on the floor that the purpose was to,
    "shine a little light on the web of climate denial and spotlight the bad actors in the web, who are polluting our American discourse with phony climate denial. This web of denial, formed over decades, has been built and provisioned by the deep-pocketed Koch brothers, by ExxonMobil, by Peabody coal, and by other fossil fuel interests. It is a grim shadow over our democracy in that it includes an electioneering effort that spends hundreds of millions of dollars in a single election cycle and threatens any Republican who steps up to address the global threat of climate change. . . . [I]t is long past time we shed some light on the perpetrators of this web of denial and expose their filthy grip on our political process. It is a disgrace, and our grandchildren will look back at this as a dirty time in America’s political history because of their work.”[4]Tax-Exempt Status Rejected

    In March 2014, the city of Grand Rapids, MI denied tax exempt status to the Acton Institute, after it spent a reported $7 million moving its offices to Grand Rapids. The Institute is expected to owe about $91,000 in property taxes for 2014. A letter sent by the city rejecting the Institute's application for tax-exempt status stated that "the entity does not meet non-profit charitable requirements according to case law."[5] Interviewed by the Grand Rapids Press, Grand Rapids City Assessor Scott Engerson further explained, “Most people think that if they’re a tax-exempt 501(c)3 they’re exempt from property tax, and that’s not the case in Michigan...In regard to Acton, it’s the charitable piece that the city was not able to definitively conclude.”[5]
    Opposition to Pope Francis

    The Acton Institute's strong support for both Catholicism and free market economics has come under strain as Pope Francis has actively criticized global inequality and unfettered capitalism. In May 2014, the Pope's Twitter account posted a tweet saying "Inequality is the root of all evil." Joe Carter, a senior editor at Acton, tweeted in reply, “Seriously, though, what was up with that tweet by @Pontifex? Has he traded the writings of Peter and Paul for Piketty?”, referring to economist Thomas Piketty, author of the 2014 book Capital in the 21st Century, a critique of growing economic inequality.[6]
    Support for GMOs

    In November 2014, in a Thanksgiving-themed blog post, Bruce Edward Walker (an Acton Institute freelancer[7] who was managing editor of the Heartland Institute's InfoTech & Telecom News from 2010 to 2012[8] and science editor of the Mackinac Center for Public Policy's MichiganScience and communications manager for its Property Rights Network from 2006 to 2010)[9] wrote that, "if not for genetically modified organisms, many of us wouldn’t be celebrating Thanksgiving in the traditional sense" and "GMOs are making tremendous strides when it comes to feeding the world not only on a day set aside for acknowledging our thanks for our food, but as well the remaining 364 days of the year.... The increasing capability of GMOs to feed the world -- safely, cost-effectively and environmentally sound -- is something to be truly thankful for." The article criticized the environmental advocacy organization As You Sow for its campaign to label GMOs.[10][11]


    Activities


    The Acton Institute hosts an annual four-day conference known as "Acton University" in Grand Rapids, MI, where it is based.[12]
    Acton also provides grants of a few thousand dollars each to "to enhance the effectiveness in the teaching and scholarship of market economics for business and economics faculty at Christian colleges, universities and seminaries across the United States and Canada."[13]


    Ties to the Bradley Foundation


    Through 2016 the Acton Institute received $3,132,000 from the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation.
    Bradley detailed the most recent grants in internal documents examined by the Center for Media and Democracy (CMD). Below is a description of the grant prepared by CMD. The quoted text was written by Bradley staff.
    2016: $150,000 to support general operations. Bradley mentions Acton University, the research department, and the “Poverty Cure Initiative” as endeavors worth funding.
    2014: $125,000 to support general operations. Acton Institute events that stand out to Bradley: Acton University and its “Toward a Free and Virtuous Society.”
    How crazy alt righties got pwnd by a conervative web site:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/berlins.../#3b7ecb78e9b5
    il·lib·er·al
    i(l)ˈlib(ə)rəladjective1.opposed to liberal principles; restricting freedom of thought or behavior
    "illiberal and anti-democratic policies
    • synonyms: intolerant, narrow-minded, unenlightened, conservative, reactionary;


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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Zero View Post
    Sorry, the source is a conservative/libertarian quasi-PAC ACTON under the guise of being Christian, althouh this “Dr” Johnson is a nutcase who writes for Lifesite news, Newsmax and other fake news purveyors.

    https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Acton_Institute


    The Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty (founded 1990) is a Classical Liberal think tank, part of the Atlas Economic Research Foundation network, which promotes laissez-faire economics and public policy within a Christian framework. According to its website, the Acton Institute's goal is "to promote a free and virtuous society characterized by individual liberty and sustained by religious principles."[1] It is an associate member of the State Policy Network (SPN).


    Contents






    Mission and Positions


    The Acton Institute "seeks to articulate a vision of society that is both free and virtuous, the end of which is human flourishing."[2]
    The group is both pro-religious and pro-market. Director of Research Samuel Gregg said in an interview with the National Catholic Register that "both the Church and the world of economics certainly need each other. The Church needs to take seriously the insights of economics, especially when it comes to addressing poverty, while economics as a discipline needs people to remind it of all the moral and spiritual realities that don’t fit well into the models employed by most mainstream economists."[3]


    News and Controversies


    Acton Institute Called Out for Blocking Action on Climate Change

    In July of 2016, nineteen U.S. Senators delivered a series of speeches denouncing climate change denial from 32 organizations with links to fossil-fuel interests, including the Acton Institute.[4] Sen. Whitehouse (RI-D), who led the effort to expose "the web of denial" said in his remarks on the floor that the purpose was to,
    "shine a little light on the web of climate denial and spotlight the bad actors in the web, who are polluting our American discourse with phony climate denial. This web of denial, formed over decades, has been built and provisioned by the deep-pocketed Koch brothers, by ExxonMobil, by Peabody coal, and by other fossil fuel interests. It is a grim shadow over our democracy in that it includes an electioneering effort that spends hundreds of millions of dollars in a single election cycle and threatens any Republican who steps up to address the global threat of climate change. . . . [I]t is long past time we shed some light on the perpetrators of this web of denial and expose their filthy grip on our political process. It is a disgrace, and our grandchildren will look back at this as a dirty time in America’s political history because of their work.”[4]Tax-Exempt Status Rejected

    In March 2014, the city of Grand Rapids, MI denied tax exempt status to the Acton Institute, after it spent a reported $7 million moving its offices to Grand Rapids. The Institute is expected to owe about $91,000 in property taxes for 2014. A letter sent by the city rejecting the Institute's application for tax-exempt status stated that "the entity does not meet non-profit charitable requirements according to case law."[5] Interviewed by the Grand Rapids Press, Grand Rapids City Assessor Scott Engerson further explained, “Most people think that if they’re a tax-exempt 501(c)3 they’re exempt from property tax, and that’s not the case in Michigan...In regard to Acton, it’s the charitable piece that the city was not able to definitively conclude.”[5]
    Opposition to Pope Francis

    The Acton Institute's strong support for both Catholicism and free market economics has come under strain as Pope Francis has actively criticized global inequality and unfettered capitalism. In May 2014, the Pope's Twitter account posted a tweet saying "Inequality is the root of all evil." Joe Carter, a senior editor at Acton, tweeted in reply, “Seriously, though, what was up with that tweet by @Pontifex? Has he traded the writings of Peter and Paul for Piketty?”, referring to economist Thomas Piketty, author of the 2014 book Capital in the 21st Century, a critique of growing economic inequality.[6]
    Support for GMOs

    In November 2014, in a Thanksgiving-themed blog post, Bruce Edward Walker (an Acton Institute freelancer[7] who was managing editor of the Heartland Institute's InfoTech & Telecom News from 2010 to 2012[8] and science editor of the Mackinac Center for Public Policy's MichiganScience and communications manager for its Property Rights Network from 2006 to 2010)[9] wrote that, "if not for genetically modified organisms, many of us wouldn’t be celebrating Thanksgiving in the traditional sense" and "GMOs are making tremendous strides when it comes to feeding the world not only on a day set aside for acknowledging our thanks for our food, but as well the remaining 364 days of the year.... The increasing capability of GMOs to feed the world -- safely, cost-effectively and environmentally sound -- is something to be truly thankful for." The article criticized the environmental advocacy organization As You Sow for its campaign to label GMOs.[10][11]


    Activities


    The Acton Institute hosts an annual four-day conference known as "Acton University" in Grand Rapids, MI, where it is based.[12]
    Acton also provides grants of a few thousand dollars each to "to enhance the effectiveness in the teaching and scholarship of market economics for business and economics faculty at Christian colleges, universities and seminaries across the United States and Canada."[13]


    Ties to the Bradley Foundation


    Through 2016 the Acton Institute received $3,132,000 from the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation.
    Bradley detailed the most recent grants in internal documents examined by the Center for Media and Democracy (CMD). Below is a description of the grant prepared by CMD. The quoted text was written by Bradley staff.
    2016: $150,000 to support general operations. Bradley mentions Acton University, the research department, and the “Poverty Cure Initiative” as endeavors worth funding.
    2014: $125,000 to support general operations. Acton Institute events that stand out to Bradley: Acton University and its “Toward a Free and Virtuous Society.”

    Hard to believe that yet another lefty attacks the messenger...and leaves the message standing. Logic and liberal just don't go together.

    “[T]he degree of welfare state spending across countries is negatively correlated with household net wealth”

    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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