America's allies.....not so much.

[Green Arrow]

When considering that Europe has more than enough money to serve its own defense without our help, I don't see how it's nonsense.

Think about how different Germany's budget would be if we completely withdrew from Europe. They'd suddenly have to spend a lot more on their military than they currently do. So would a lot of other European nations.

They'd probably create some EU military to streamline the budgetary issues, but overall, Europe would have less money to spend on their safety nets.

It's nonsense for multiple reasons:

1) None of the relevant agreements require those nations pay us anything, the closest it gets is the NATO treaty suggesting that each member country spend at least 2% of their GDP on their military/defense budget, and even then it's just a suggestion and not an actual requirement.

2) None of the countries in Europe have the economy that we do that allows us to spend way too much on our military/defense budget, and anticipating them getting anywhere close is ridiculous. We shouldn't even be spending as much as we do on military/defense.

3) The whole reason we created alliances like NATO and why Germany doesn't spend much on their military is because we basically banned them from building much of a military after WWI/WWII and even after those restrictions were lifted, they followed the spirit of them.

I also once again find it troubling that you prioritize military spending over social safety nets.

[Retirednsmilin308]

Place holder, more later.

Say "hi" to Eve.

Say " Hi " to her yourself. Here she is.
Here is a posed shot i took of her for her dating profile.
She figured if a guy wanted to meet her after this, he was not a wuss.
Though she is very liberal, she loves gun shows and shooting.
Though she needed to work on her trigger discipline a bit at the time of the pic.
Not to mention, pretty hot.

(I got her permission)

Eve06.jpg

[Rooster]

Eve and I are BFFs and are the best of friends.
Not on-line but real friends in the flesh.
She is pretty liberal and I say I am center right.
Well anyway we were catching up and after the usual updates on our personal lives, the conversation moved to politics.

She hates Trump and is a fervent believer in climate change. OK, darlin', you know I love yuz anyway.

Anyway, she said Trump is alienating us from our allies.

Now here is my view and what I told her.

The United States has no allies.

There are countries that respect us, fear us, or hate us, but NONE...not a one... is an ally.

If just the US and no other country were attacked in some way, by one or several other countries, not one country in the world would step up and help us.

We are alone on the world stage.

Those of whom say they are our friends are as genuine as FRIENDING us on some web site.
None will be beside us if the situation becomes desperate.
If any step in it will only be because their national interests are also at stake.
Not because they are our allies.

Sure, they may post resolutions condemning the attack, but at the same time, sit on the sidelines and eat popcorn.
No country is our true ally.

Please, no one point to NATO.
When the UK was attacked by Argentina, not one NATO country stepped in to help.
The NATO promise rings hollow.

The US did unofficially help Britain during the Argentine war. This was borne out by CIA records afterwards.

[Retirednsmilin308]

The US did unofficially help Britain during the Argentine war. This was borne out by CIA records afterwards.

I already knew that. I was there.

The point is about anyone helping US.

[Rationalist]

It's nonsense for multiple reasons:

1) None of the relevant agreements require those nations pay us anything, the closest it gets is the NATO treaty suggesting that each member country spend at least 2% of their GDP on their military/defense budget, and even then it's just a suggestion and not an actual requirement.

2) None of the countries in Europe have the economy that we do that allows us to spend way too much on our military/defense budget, and anticipating them getting anywhere close is ridiculous. We shouldn't even be spending as much as we do on military/defense.

3) The whole reason we created alliances like NATO and why Germany doesn't spend much on their military is because we basically banned them from building much of a military after WWI/WWII and even after those restrictions were lifted, they followed the spirit of them.

I also once again find it troubling that you prioritize military spending over social safety nets.

If you believe we spend too much on our military, then you should support the idea of us withdrawing from Europe, so that we can then shrink our military.

[Green Arrow]

If you believe we spend too much on our military, then you should support the idea of us withdrawing from Europe, so that we can then shrink our military.

Never said I was against it. I just want it done for the right reasons, not for made up ones.

[Newpublius]

None of the relevant agreements require those nations pay us anything

Equity demands it.

the closest it gets is the NATO treaty suggesting that each member country spend at least 2% of their GDP on their military/defense budget, and even then it's just a suggestion and not an actual requirement.

Because they choose not to do it. Now, they have a right NOT to do it, but we should take notice of that and leave NATO.

None of the countries in Europe have the economy that we do that allows us to spend way too much on our military/defense budget, and anticipating them getting anywhere close is ridiculous.

Nominally, no single country could match the nominal expenditures of the US. That doesn't mean they can't match the relative expenditures which, collectively, would actually add up to alot of money. The EU as a whole is over 500mn people with a GDP of 18.8tn (US is 327mn and 19.39tn) And of course France and UK have nukes.

We shouldn't even be spending as much as we do on military/defense.

I agree, but that is a separate inquiry really.

[MMC]

When considering that Europe has more than enough money to serve its own defense without our help, I don't see how it's nonsense.

Think about how different Germany's budget would be if we completely withdrew from Europe. They'd suddenly have to spend a lot more on their military than they currently do. So would a lot of other European nations.

They'd probably create some EU military to streamline the budgetary issues, but overall, Europe would have less money to spend on their safety nets.

Because the reality is....it isn't nonsense. There is more conflict today, with more alliances changing rapidly.

[jet57]

Say " Hi " to her yourself. Here she is.
Here is a posed shot i took of her for her dating profile.
She figured if a guy wanted to meet her after this, he was not a wuss.
Though she is very liberal, she loves gun shows and shooting.
Though she needed to work on her trigger discipline a bit at the time of the pic.
Not to mention, pretty hot.

(I got her permission)

Attachment 27598

Wow; what a fox.

[Retirednsmilin308]

Wow; what a fox.

She's my buddy.
We tried the boyfriend/girlfriend thing for a few days but it was like kissing my sister.
Same with her.

Proof a man can be good friends with a woman and there be no sex involved.
BFFs actually.
I still have the worn-off bracelet in my wallet.

She even met my wife a couple times before i did.
When we got married she flew down and filmed the ceremony for us.