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Thread: Taking the Founders’ Moral Ideas Seriously

  1. #21
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    jet57's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    You don't understand individualism as an ideology, jet, it's not a goal. You confuse it with being an individual.

    I've become mostly anti-individualist, so you don't grasp that either.
    You never described it as an ideology. I never said that "individualism" WAS a goal. I said that being recognized AS an individual through knighthood was a goal.

    Please stop conflating and read what I'm saying, not what you THINK I'm saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    You never described it as an ideology. I never said that "individualism" WAS a goal. I said that being recognized AS an individual through knighthood was a goal.

    Please stop conflating and read what I'm saying, not what you THINK I'm saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I'm citing very early examples of what can be called "individualism. You're going way overboard in some sort of effort to make me wrong...

    You are conflating a great deal there. A man, who became a knight (as an example of an individual being "recognized" as an individual) became an instrument of government. Therefore "individualism" became a goal. Individuals, as you speak of them were not recognized below that level. Such "knighthoods" began around 1070 A.D. "Feudalism" didn't begin until Guillaume le Bâtard.

    I'm also saying that your interest in "individualism" is Rand inspired as well as your interest in epistemology.


    Oh, I read what you posted. Maybe you should, socks.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

  3. #23
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    Did you two go to Medieval Manor for dinner? I want the green team.

    Serfs were basically slaves. They produced food or other forms of payment as taxes. If they didn't produce then they starved to death or were killed. More often they ran. Farmers feed their cows. Then when they get too old they butcher them. That was how a serf was treated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Attachment 27855

    What's a lord then...
    notice

    Notice

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina73 View Post
    Did you two go to Medieval Manor for dinner? I want the green team.

    Serfs were basically slaves. They produced food or other forms of payment as taxes. If they didn't produce then they starved to death or were killed. More often they ran. Farmers feed their cows. Then when they get too old they butcher them. That was how a serf was treated.

    Actually they were in the same mutually interdependent relation as knights and lords, lords and king. If a lord allowed his serfs to starve then his land becomes worthless. If he wasn't good to them, they rebelled by right of resistance, the same natural right you see in the Declaration.

    See, for example, Fritz Kern's Kingship and Law in the Middle Ages.
    Last edited by Chris; 01-15-2020 at 10:28 AM.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Another thread fail by Chris.
    Two things awe me most, the starry sky above me and the moral law within me.
    --Immanuel Kant

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    Last edited by DGUtley; 01-17-2020 at 03:13 PM.
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