How I changed my mind about the biology of race

[Chris]

How I changed my mind about the biology of race

...Our concept of race is not really about skin colour or eye shape, and never has been. It has baked into it beliefs that can’t be dispelled merely by reducing its biological correlates to trivialities. For in our assumptions about race, those features have always been rather irrelevant in themselves. Rather, they serve to activate prejudices stemming from deeply ingrained cognitive habits.

Saini [author of Superior] shows that what we have understood by race encodes the belief that literally superficial aspects of our appearance act as markers for innate differences we can’t see. And here’s the problem: it does so for good reason. In times past, and sometimes still today, the strong correlation between your appearance and your culture meant that visual differences really could act as proxies for certain differences in attitudes, traditions and beliefs.

Our brains are exquisitely adapted to pick up on such correlations – and, unfortunately in this case, to conclude that they are causative. We instinctively assume that differences in behaviour that are in fact due to culture must be linked to – even caused by – characteristics of appearance. That is what the traditional notion of race is all about. But genetics has found no such innate origins of behavioural differences between “races” – and it is highly unlikely, given what we know about genetic variation, that it would.

So the notion of race depends on cultural difference – yes, it is a social construct – yet our brains intuitively insist that biology must play a role....

"That is what the traditional notion of race is all about."

The author is still somewhat confused because that is what modern notions of race are about, the superficialities of skin color, eye shape, and so on. The traditional notion of race was cultural, your people different from outsiders in their values, language, habits, traditions, religion, etc. This is what the author even himself says in the first and second paragraphs above, so not sure why he gets confused.

"it is a social construct"

OK, so long as social construct does not connote designed or deliberate but arises from human interaction as a natural process of group selection that defines a group and those outside it. Being natural it is easy to see how it could be confused with biological evolution.



On edit: I'll leave this to open discussion, whatever your thoughts are, we should be able to openly discuss race--so long as you're not obnoxiously racist, in the modern sense, or make accusations.

[Common]

Chris science mumbo jumbo to be honest, heres my uneducated take and I have a little experience having grown up with it, working with it most of my life.

Blacks have a deep set disdain for white people and they have a right to it, slavery then the subsequent racism. They were denied opportunity, and fair treatment. Just Like I cant identify a muslim that doesnt want to hurt me, blacks cant identify which white person isnt smiling at them and doesnt mean it. Im talking 60s, 70s, 80s, by the 90s civil rights laws, affirmative action made things much better. But the ingrained bitterness and distrust didnt go away and it wont.

Fast forward to 2020, Democrats have promoted racism and divide nonstop since the 60s, its their mainstay to get "WHITE" democrats elected. Blacks cant tell which smiling white person is sincere whether they are democrat or republican. As long as democrat promote the Race card and keep us divided the longer it takes for it all to heal.

The biggest problem with whites and blacks seeing past the color as I see it today is CULTURE, we are all raised with different culture and More's,

Its the same as When Italians came here and cooked stinky Garlic food and talked a crazy language and acted and walked talked and dressed different.. Well decades later that all went away, but it doesnt go away between whites and blacks because the Visual differences always remain, the color difference, italians were able to get past the cultural differences in part because they were caucasion.

Until we stop the race card crap and the constant accusations and PHONY white people running around more butt hurt than real black people then its goiing to take far longer to change.

Nothing disgusts me more than an indignant $#@!bag white person that runs around claiming everyone else is a vicious white nationalist nazi white scumbag and they never had a bad day in their life, never lived in a black neighborhood and come from money.....in plain english $#@! THEM, I loathe them they are play acting and most are as disengenuous and phony as it gets.

The hollywooders like Michael Moore and the rest of the soft ass whiteys that made MILLIONS being white, from other whites and now want to run around living the highlife without a care, telling the rest of the working white people YOU SUCK, YOURE RACISTS and you havent changed. Once again $#@! THEM I have no respect for them.

I worry about me, I take everyone in real life for what they are and how they treat me. If im called a racist, I dont defend it anymore, $#@! them.

[Chris]

The OP article bases its change in views on the fact science has not discovered a biological basis for race, mumbo jumbo that was once believed.

As for the race card playing and such of modern times, I will say this. Racism, especially institutional racism, has faded in the US because of cultural mixing and equality sought by the likes of MLK, while the left tries to bring it back with identity politics.

[FindersKeepers]

I agree with a little bit of both. I think racial division is mostly cultural division - after all - in India, the people pretty much all look the same, and yet there is a caste division that's often accompanied by the wearing of certain types of apparel. If you took a person from the lower castes, dressed him handsomely and taught him how to hold himself to look confident, he would likely pass for a member of a higher caste.

I think Common is right in that *some* blacks harbor animosity based on their history -- and while I understand that, it's not a justifiable position. I also believe *some* whites have come to look down on certain black sub-cultures that present themselves as young men wearing their jeans hanging off their bottoms. We've permitted a certain mindset to go along with that image, but the characterization of the individual is based on what we see as his choice to include himself in that subculture.

I have a black acquaintance who once told me he goes to great lengths to dress professionally to avoid people judging him as they judge the young black men who wear those droopy drawers. He's always top-notch - pressed trousers, perfect tie. I thought it might be more difficult for him because he has to put so much effort into it. But, this is a small town, everyone knows him and his children, and although there are only a handful of blacks in the community, he's highly respected and his kids are as well. His son was a celebrated athlete and his daughter was Prom Queen. So, there doesn't have to be a cultural difference, but I know his daughter was once accused of "acting white," which I think was a hurtful thing to say. She was just trying to fit in -- as all kids do -- and she did it well.

I think the notion of "cultural appropriation" has harmed societal progress for some blacks. Instead of remembering that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, someone suggested that they be offended if a white kid wears dreds. If you ask me, in a melting pot such as the US, there's no room for accusations of cultural appropriation. We should all celebrate the best other cultures bring us and oppose the worst. Take a Muslim Arab for instance. We can acknowledge that some of the world's best mathematical and astronomical advances came from the Arab world while still opposing female genital mutilation. It's not an "all" or "nothing" thing.

I've seen white-on-black racism, and white-on-Hispanic racism, the latter was so evident when I was showing houses to a young couple and the wife said they'd like to see houses in any surrounding town except one -- that one she'd grown up in and her childhood had been traumatized by the Swedish children (and their parents) who treated her awfully because she was Hispanic. She bore emotional scars.

It's understandable that people have a tough time stepping out of their comfort zones, which is likely why we have groups of Chinese living together in large cities, as well as groups of Italians, Jews, Hispanics, Muslims, and blacks. People tend to congregate with those of similar attitudes and cultures. But, crossing those cultural lines is absolutely doable -- by anyone if they choose to make the effort.

[FindersKeepers]

The OP article bases its change in views on the fact science has not discovered a biological basis for race, mumbo jumbo that was once believed.

As for the race card playing and such of modern times, I will say this. Racism, especially institutional racism, has faded in the US because of cultural mixing and equality sought by the likes of MLK, while the left tries to bring it back with identity politics.

I agree with this -- and they do it to the detriment of minorities. I just wish those minorities would understand what they're up to.

[Common]

The OP article bases its change in views on the fact science has not discovered a biological basis for race, mumbo jumbo that was once believed.

As for the race card playing and such of modern times, I will say this. Racism, especially institutional racism, has faded in the US because of cultural mixing and equality sought by the likes of MLK, while the left tries to bring it back with identity politics.

My bad my lack of education makes for sparse reading comprehension at times, plus my speed reading that isnt so speedy when I miss stuff

[Collateral Damage]

Working past the 'norms' set forth by white ancestors is especially difficult in today's world. One thing that a number of people seem to have issue with is acknowledging cultural and physical differences is not racism. Nor is it bigotry. It is giving the basis for another person's beliefs validation, even if you do not agree with them. It flows over to politics also, but another thread, another time.

Anyone who puts physical differences as first and foremost (my 'favorite', Obama is the first Black President) and acts like it is the defining factor, is not paying attention to who the person actually is. But, as said, identity politics is the name of today's game.

Because my skin is white, and someone else's is not, doesn't mean I owe them anything monetary, or special treatment. I am required, by my own values, to give them respect as a human first and foremost. That is all that is owed to another person. The biology of it all comes down to one thing, IMO. We are all humans.

[Chris]

Working past the 'norms' set forth by white ancestors is especially difficult in today's world. One thing that a number of people seem to have issue with is acknowledging cultural and physical differences is not racism. Nor is it bigotry. It is giving the basis for another person's beliefs validation, even if you do not agree with them. It flows over to politics also, but another thread, another time.

Anyone who puts physical differences as first and foremost (my 'favorite', Obama is the first Black President) and acts like it is the defining factor, is not paying attention to who the person actually is. But, as said, identity politics is the name of today's game.

Because my skin is white, and someone else's is not, doesn't mean I owe them anything monetary, or special treatment. I am required, by my own values, to give them respect as a human first and foremost. That is all that is owed to another person. The biology of it all comes down to one thing, IMO. We are all humans.

It is giving the basis for another person's beliefs validation, even if you do not agree with them. It flows over to politics also, but another thread, another time.

I think that's right on target the OP. As I said in OP comments, "The traditional notion of race was cultural, your people different from outsiders in their values, language, habits, traditions, religion, etc." and it "arises from human interaction as a natural process of group selection that defines a group and those outside it."

Much of the Old Testament is a collection of cultural rules that distinguish the Jews from others. It was almost odd when they wet to God to demand a king like others have.

[Lummy]

A brick sidewalk is not the same as a brick pizza oven is not the same as a brick building even though the building blocks and mortar are identical.

Without even getting into race, I would point out that this is yet another realm of "no-see-'em" science that, like global warming/climate change, depends more on your social and political connections than on facts (sorry), being all the rage in academia. What you gain from a sheepskin is a kind of licensed authority that might not be (probably isn't) based on anything substantive except your peers: this is the way it is because we say it's the way it is.

Reject it all. Throw out the bath water AND the baby, especially when PC absolutely requires that all of human history has been wrong.

[Chris]

A brick sidewalk is not the same as a brick pizza oven is not the same as a brick building even though the building blocks and mortar are identical.

Without even getting into race, I would point out that this is yet another realm of "no-see-'em" science that, like global warming/climate change, depends more on your social and political connections than on facts (sorry), being all the rage in academia. What you gain from a sheepskin is a kind of licensed authority that might not be (probably isn't) based on anything substantive except your peers: this is the way it is because we say it's the way it is.

Reject it all. Throw out the bath water AND the baby, especially when PC absolutely requires that all of human history has been wrong.

I think you miss the point.