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Thread: Iran and US Beliefs Dispelled

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    Iran and US Beliefs Dispelled

    It’s been enjoyable reading the often polarized views and myths about Iran. Equally a few months ago about North Korea. No disrespect, but often from those who wouldn’t be able to find Iran on a map and think the Hormuz Straits is the Persian Gulf, or that civil disturbances are a declaration and act of war. Similarly, the belief that minority opposition against a foreign political system will mean it collapses, but not the US system which has mass opposition for change.

    It’s all part of a worldview in which events are designed to fit around political beliefs. If you believe that Mr. Trump is the greatest president in history, then you’ll also believe everything he does is right and everyone else is wrong and due to ingrained beliefs, even when he’s wrong he’s right. Likewise, if you believe that Muslim societies want democracy, you’ll also believe that US military involvement in the Middle East is an intervention, or a policing exercise and not an occupation.

    Nearer the truth is that societies function in similar ways. The fanaticism of Islamists is no different to those of US evangelicals. Hero worship also applies to the US and the grief of 9/11 was no less than that felt by others (often referred to as ragheads, spicks and s**t), who have been bombed.

    The minority fanaticism of religion is no different in Iran than it is in the US



    The bizarre hero worship of a political ‘God’ in North Korea is no different to that of Trump in America



    No matter whether it’s the US 9/11 or missile strikes in Syria, the pain is felt equally


    To understand events it’s necessary to look at both sides of the argument, not just buy into a media driven narrative. If you believe that the US could bring democracy to Muslim countries by invasions, bombings and removing their leaders, after Libya, Iraq and Syria, it’s unlikely to happen in Iran either. If you believe the US has brought peace and stability to the Middle East you must be joking and if you believe it wasn’t all about controlling the majority world’s oil supply and forcing the use of the petro dollar you have to wonder why it was only those Middle Eastern countries who abandoned the dollar which were bombed or invaded.

    Nothing that is happening now or recently hasn’t been pre-planned years ago. From ‘Arab Springs, to ‘Regime changes’ and ‘coups.’

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/we-re-...udan-iran/5166

    "We’re Going to Take out 7 Countries in 5 Years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan & Iran."

    For those who see criticism of the US as a one-sided hate, it’s not just the US who has been getting its hands dirty.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sis-syria-iraq

    "The war on terror, that campaign without end launched 14 years ago by George Bush, is tying itself up in ever more grotesque contortions. On Monday the trial in London of a Swedish man, Bherlin Gildo, accused of terrorism in Syria, collapsed after it became clear British intelligence had been arming the same rebel groups the defendant was charged with supporting."


    It’s a murky world and the majority public in the US only hear one side of it. Rarely do beliefs support facts, but often opinions based on facts destroy widely held beliefs. Those who support the black and white beliefs of good v evil, or terrorist v freedom fighter, completely miss the point and why they often sound like parrots repeating sound bites that have no relation to reality.

    Some facts about Iran many missed:

    "Under Nixon and Kissinger the U.S. armed the Shah to the teeth, instruments the repressive leader used for brutally suppressing dissent among his people." It’s why the Shah was overthrown.

    "Another argument that U.S. opponents of the [Iran’s nuclear] deal have thrown at it is that it doesn’t permit inspections of Iran’s military facilities—a charge that’s untrue. A process was established to allow such inspections within 24 days, though of course opponents then argued that gives Iran time to hide traces of its nuclear activities. However, the International Atomic Energy Association (IAEA) has said that Iran wouldn’t be able to remove traces of fissle material in 24 days; that it hangs around for years … The deal included a stiff monitoring capability and thus far Iran has been assessed to be observing the terms of the agreement."

    Iran and majority US beliefs are no different from those other countries demonized by the US government to keep the paranoia and hatred alive.

    https://drewbinsky.com/iran-not-think/

    "Contrary to popular belief, Iran is extremely safe, with the most friendly people I’ve ever met who went out of their way to make sure I was safe and having a good time."

    https://www.academia.edu/12117287/In...ngolia_Tourist

    "Enjoy a calm and relaxing visit, [China] bringing new sights and experiences every day, in a stress free lifestyle reminiscent of the western 1960s."

    Did Trump intentionally scrap Iran’s nuclear deal as an excuse for involvement, just as the non-existent WMDs was the pretext for removing Saddam? Was the reason for sending ground forces to Syria to fight ISIS, or to remove Assad in its civil war by funding and arming ‘moderate’ dissident forces? Having lost control of the Middle East and since Russia’s intervention has seen the destruction of ISIS, is the reason for Soleimani’s assassination a plan B to keep US forces in the Middle East?

    Opinion articles often give an alternative view and clues. There is no right or wrong, but there are explanations and there are different views other than those based on beliefs.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...cid=spartandhp

    "Trump, Iran and Where ‘The Forever War’ Was Always Headed."








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    Well...

    ... mebbe it really was aliens.

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    I know you mean no disrespect and I often agree with (how are you, BTW?) but I've come to find that European perspectives on the US, regardless of political persuasion, tend to be as bizarre as your typical American's perspective on Iran.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I know you mean no disrespect and I often agree with (how are you, BTW?) but I've come to find that European perspectives on the US, regardless of political persuasion, tend to be as bizarre as your typical American's perspective on Iran.
    I’m fine thanks. What European perspectives do you find bizarre?








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    Quote Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
    I’m fine thanks. What European perspectives do you find bizarre?
    Glad to hear it.
    If you believe that Mr. Trump is the greatest president in history, then you’ll also believe everything he does is right and everyone else is wrong and due to ingrained beliefs, even when he’s wrong he’s right.
    You're not describing real people.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Glad to hear it.


    You're not describing real people.
    I’m describing the beliefs that arise from an indoctrination in which Obama was hailed as a Messiah by millions followed by Trump. You can hear this reflected in many of the posts and obvious in the current polarized divide in American society. Europeans have experienced this behaviour often during the 20th century. Are we missing something, or is American society currently experiencing what we went through?








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    I spent a couple weeks in the Caribbean and I am now an expert in Caribbean foreign policy. For real Mon!

    I am currently preparing short 8 page brief for everyone's review.
    I am tired of everyone fighting with each other. This is all by design.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to texan For This Useful Post:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
    It’s been enjoyable reading the often polarized views and myths about Iran. Equally a few months ago about North Korea. No disrespect, but often from those who wouldn’t be able to find Iran on a map and think the Hormuz Straits is the Persian Gulf, or that civil disturbances are a declaration and act of war. Similarly, the belief that minority opposition against a foreign political system will mean it collapses, but not the US system which has mass opposition for change.

    It’s all part of a worldview in which events are designed to fit around political beliefs. If you believe that Mr. Trump is the greatest president in history, then you’ll also believe everything he does is right and everyone else is wrong and due to ingrained beliefs, even when he’s wrong he’s right. Likewise, if you believe that Muslim societies want democracy, you’ll also believe that US military involvement in the Middle East is an intervention, or a policing exercise and not an occupation.

    Nearer the truth is that societies function in similar ways. The fanaticism of Islamists is no different to those of US evangelicals. Hero worship also applies to the US and the grief of 9/11 was no less than that felt by others (often referred to as ragheads, spicks and s**t), who have been bombed.

    The minority fanaticism of religion is no different in Iran than it is in the US



    The bizarre hero worship of a political ‘God’ in North Korea is no different to that of Trump in America



    No matter whether it’s the US 9/11 or missile strikes in Syria, the pain is felt equally


    To understand events it’s necessary to look at both sides of the argument, not just buy into a media driven narrative. If you believe that the US could bring democracy to Muslim countries by invasions, bombings and removing their leaders, after Libya, Iraq and Syria, it’s unlikely to happen in Iran either. If you believe the US has brought peace and stability to the Middle East you must be joking and if you believe it wasn’t all about controlling the majority world’s oil supply and forcing the use of the petro dollar you have to wonder why it was only those Middle Eastern countries who abandoned the dollar which were bombed or invaded.

    Nothing that is happening now or recently hasn’t been pre-planned years ago. From ‘Arab Springs, to ‘Regime changes’ and ‘coups.’

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/we-re-...udan-iran/5166

    "We’re Going to Take out 7 Countries in 5 Years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan & Iran."

    For those who see criticism of the US as a one-sided hate, it’s not just the US who has been getting its hands dirty.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sis-syria-iraq

    "The war on terror, that campaign without end launched 14 years ago by George Bush, is tying itself up in ever more grotesque contortions. On Monday the trial in London of a Swedish man, Bherlin Gildo, accused of terrorism in Syria, collapsed after it became clear British intelligence had been arming the same rebel groups the defendant was charged with supporting."


    It’s a murky world and the majority public in the US only hear one side of it. Rarely do beliefs support facts, but often opinions based on facts destroy widely held beliefs. Those who support the black and white beliefs of good v evil, or terrorist v freedom fighter, completely miss the point and why they often sound like parrots repeating sound bites that have no relation to reality.

    Some facts about Iran many missed:

    "Under Nixon and Kissinger the U.S. armed the Shah to the teeth, instruments the repressive leader used for brutally suppressing dissent among his people." It’s why the Shah was overthrown.

    "Another argument that U.S. opponents of the [Iran’s nuclear] deal have thrown at it is that it doesn’t permit inspections of Iran’s military facilities—a charge that’s untrue. A process was established to allow such inspections within 24 days, though of course opponents then argued that gives Iran time to hide traces of its nuclear activities. However, the International Atomic Energy Association (IAEA) has said that Iran wouldn’t be able to remove traces of fissle material in 24 days; that it hangs around for years … The deal included a stiff monitoring capability and thus far Iran has been assessed to be observing the terms of the agreement."

    Iran and majority US beliefs are no different from those other countries demonized by the US government to keep the paranoia and hatred alive.

    https://drewbinsky.com/iran-not-think/

    "Contrary to popular belief, Iran is extremely safe, with the most friendly people I’ve ever met who went out of their way to make sure I was safe and having a good time."

    https://www.academia.edu/12117287/In...ngolia_Tourist

    "Enjoy a calm and relaxing visit, [China] bringing new sights and experiences every day, in a stress free lifestyle reminiscent of the western 1960s."

    Did Trump intentionally scrap Iran’s nuclear deal as an excuse for involvement, just as the non-existent WMDs was the pretext for removing Saddam? Was the reason for sending ground forces to Syria to fight ISIS, or to remove Assad in its civil war by funding and arming ‘moderate’ dissident forces? Having lost control of the Middle East and since Russia’s intervention has seen the destruction of ISIS, is the reason for Soleimani’s assassination a plan B to keep US forces in the Middle East?

    Opinion articles often give an alternative view and clues. There is no right or wrong, but there are explanations and there are different views other than those based on beliefs.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...cid=spartandhp

    "Trump, Iran and Where ‘The Forever War’ Was Always Headed."
    Just a few observations:

    (1) To claim that "[t]he fanaticism of Islamists is no different to those of US evangelicals" is only partially true: Although evangelicals (and especially charismatics) can be rather overzealous, in my view--and I really do not care for zealotry--they do not wish to kill those who resist the opportunity to convert. (Yes, they try to intimidate others with a promise of eternal punishment if they do not do so; but there is no government-enforced requirement that they do so.)

    (2) Too many people, in my opinion, do take their fealty to President Trump too far; but most still do not view him as some sort of demigod.

    Little Kim, on the other hand, expects precisely this sort of worship.

    (3) Your dismissive regard for "the majority public in the US" indicates a sort of intellectual elitism on your part; and I do not find that especially attractive.

    (4) I do find it...well, rather interesting...that your thirst for competing views appears to stop with the purveyors of left-wing opinions (such as The Guardian, and MSNBC/The Daily Beast).

    Just a few thoughts to consider...
    Last edited by pjohns; 01-09-2020 at 04:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
    I’m describing the beliefs that arise from an indoctrination in which Obama was hailed as a Messiah by millions followed by Trump. You can hear this reflected in many of the posts and obvious in the current polarized divide in American society. Europeans have experienced this behaviour often during the 20th century. Are we missing something, or is American society currently experiencing what we went through?
    No, it's closer to reality to suggest that you've been colonized since 1945. The proliferation of North American lifestyles and habits of mind is part and parcel of globalization. If we're starting to resemble one another (and we are to some extent) that's why. We're not experiencing what Europeans experienced in the first half of the 20th Century. On the contrary, European societies appear to be lacking confidence. Even an ounce of virility and confidence is perceived as unsophisticated or dangerous.

    No one worships Trump or thinks he's always right. Yes, quite a few members typically defend Trump but that's only because so much of the criticism directed at him is totally irrational. The latest episode regarding Iran is a case in point. WW3, impending doom...I mean the $#@!ing story wasn't even an hour old! lol Better still, almost everyone admitted that this guy had to go but somehow they just can't approach anything Trump says or does rationally. So I guess in one way we agree. There is a lot of crazy in contemporary American politics and a lot of polarization but it stems from the hatred Trump inspires not from any sort of hero worship.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    No, it's closer to reality to suggest that you've been colonized since 1945. The proliferation of North American lifestyles and habits of mind is part and parcel of globalization. If we're starting to resemble one another (and we are to some extent) that's why. We're not experiencing what Europeans experienced in the first half of the 20th Century. On the contrary, European societies appear to be lacking confidence. Even an ounce of virility and confidence is perceived as unsophisticated or dangerous.

    No one worships Trump or thinks he's always right. Yes, quite a few members typically defend Trump but that's only because so much of the criticism directed at him is totally irrational. The latest episode regarding Iran is a case in point. WW3, impending doom...I mean the $#@!ing story wasn't even an hour old! lol Better still, almost everyone admitted that this guy had to go but somehow they just can't approach anything Trump says or does rationally. So I guess in one way we agree. There is a lot of crazy in contemporary American politics and a lot of polarization but it stems from the hatred Trump inspires not from any sort of hero worship.
    Yes, the first paragraph is true, but we’ve lost confidence since open borders started the Islamification of Europe. There is a fight back starting in some European countries, but whether it will succeed is another matter and in the UK, probably not.

    I’d disagree that no one worships Trump, the same with Obama, which is why I mentioned the European equivalent of the 20th century. You only had to watch the Obama and Trump rallies to see the insanity. We’ve seen all that in Europe already. Even Trump was amazed in 2016 when he said that he could shoot someone and people would still vote for him. That’s pretty indoctrinated stuff. I suppose where we fundamentally disagree is that Trump is rational. If you asked what was Trumps foreign policy I’d say wait and see, because he hasn’t got one and plays it by ear. Dangerous stuff.








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