User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 17 FirstFirst 1234567814 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 166

Thread: Ayn Rand

  1. #31
    Points: 52,081, Level: 55
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 469
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    jet57's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    2378
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    19,121
    Points
    52,081
    Level
    55
    Thanks Given
    1,698
    Thanked 2,368x in 2,004 Posts
    Mentioned
    284 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The Kochs were not anarchocapitalists.

    There is no such thing as Libertarianism: the idealism is called libertarianism with a lowercase l; the party is Libertarian with an uppercase L.

    Rand despised libertarians.

    In Rand's own words:

    Ayn Rand was opposed to the libertarian movement of her time. In 1971 she wrote:

    "For the record, I shall repeat what I have said many times before: I do not join or endorse any political group or movement. More specifically, I disapprove of, disagree with and have no connection with, the latest aberration of some conservatives, the so-called “hippies of the right,” who attempt to snare the younger or more careless ones of my readers by claiming simultaneously to be followers of my philosophy and advocates of anarchism. Anyone offering such a combination confesses his inability to understand either. Anarchism is the most irrational, anti-intellectual notion ever spun by the concrete-bound, context-dropping, whim-worshiping fringe of the collectivist movement, where it properly belongs."

    — “Brief Summary,” The Objectivist, Vol. 10, Sep. 1971

    "Above all, do not join the wrong ideological groups or movements, in order to “do something.” By “ideological” (in this context), I mean groups or movements proclaiming some vaguely generalized, undefined (and, usually, contradictory) political goals. (E.g., the Conservative Party, that subordinates reason to faith, and substitutes theocracy for capitalism; or the “libertarian” hippies, who subordinate reason to whims, and substitute anarchism for capitalism.) To join such groups means to reverse the philosophical hierarchy and to sell out fundamental principles for the sake of some superficial political action which is bound to fail. It means that you help the defeat of your ideas and the victory of your enemies. (For a discussion of the reasons, see “The Anatomy of Compromise” in my book Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.)"

    — “What Can One Do?” The Ayn Rand Letter, Vol. 1, No. 7

    And from Ayn Rand Answers: The Best of Her Q&A, ed. Robert Mayhew:



    More here: http://aynrandlexicon.com/ayn-rand-i...tarianism.html


    Jet, you don't know what you're talking about. You're merely regurgitating old leftist propaganda.
    " libertarian movement" movement dude. Libertarianism objectivist:
    The principle of non-initiation of force was popularized by Ayn Rand, and it certainly is a key aspect of the Objectivism
    https://atlassociety.org/commentary/...ism-compatible

    From the source book, Mean Girl page 78-79:
    Ayn Rand bitterly rejected libertariansm as right-wing "hippies" in the 1970s, but her views and those of her Objectivist followers melded substantially with the emerging libertarian movement.
    Now are you sure you want to continue on your tac? Or would you rather quit while you have your dignity intact...

  2. #32
    Points: 52,081, Level: 55
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 469
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    jet57's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    2378
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    19,121
    Points
    52,081
    Level
    55
    Thanks Given
    1,698
    Thanked 2,368x in 2,004 Posts
    Mentioned
    284 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    So then by collective, you mean the modern individualist ideology.

    BTW, Übermensch is the idea created by Nietzsche, not Rand. What, does Lisa Dugan make the comparison and you now merely and unknowingly repeat her?
    Face Palm.jpg

    Ya'know, you're just diggin a hole for yourself dude.

    I'll get back yo 'ya tomorrow.

    Thin Christopher; think.

  3. #33
    Points: 29,932, Level: 42
    Level completed: 21%, Points required for next Level: 1,118
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Social25000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Retirednsmilin308's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    5833
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    6,568
    Points
    29,932
    Level
    42
    Thanks Given
    7,875
    Thanked 5,826x in 3,490 Posts
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You know it is time to punch out when by the fourth post everything said is waay out of your league.

    It killed me to even get a D+ in Philosophy 101.
    When it is not allowed to be questioned, it is not science, it is PROPAGANDA

  4. #34
    Points: 138,410, Level: 89
    Level completed: 70%, Points required for next Level: 1,040
    Overall activity: 37.0%
    Achievements:
    Tagger First ClassSocial50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    stjames1_53's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    58246
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    50,626
    Points
    138,410
    Level
    89
    Thanks Given
    104,291
    Thanked 29,267x in 20,296 Posts
    Mentioned
    175 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Chris: "The subject is way over my head, so I'll divert to something else!

    The subject is Rand dude.
    you were the first one to bring the Magna Carta up..............you tried to divert/derail
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

  5. #35
    Points: 138,410, Level: 89
    Level completed: 70%, Points required for next Level: 1,040
    Overall activity: 37.0%
    Achievements:
    Tagger First ClassSocial50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    stjames1_53's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    58246
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    50,626
    Points
    138,410
    Level
    89
    Thanks Given
    104,291
    Thanked 29,267x in 20,296 Posts
    Mentioned
    175 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    " libertarian movement" movement dude. Libertarianism objectivist: https://atlassociety.org/commentary/...ism-compatible

    From the source book, Mean Girl page 78-79:

    Now are you sure you want to continue on your tac? Or would you rather quit while you have your dignity intact...

    and yet you have not read either of those books.
    Let's talk about ownership of one's own labor.
    Do you believe that my original thoughts and property belong to the collective, or the originator?
    If I create something, is it mine or the collective's?
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

  6. #36
    Original Ranter
    Points: 859,122, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 90.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    496581
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    241,700
    Points
    859,122
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    153,223
    Thanked 147,591x in 94,420 Posts
    Mentioned
    2552 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Retirednsmilin308 View Post
    You know it is time to punch out when by the fourth post everything said is waay out of your league.

    It killed me to even get a D+ in Philosophy 101.
    When I took philosophy everyone failed the first test. So I took some time to figure it out and got As on the rest of the tests while most were still failing. But I killed the curve which I though was funny.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Peter1469 For This Useful Post:

    Retirednsmilin308 (01-20-2020),stjames1_53 (01-20-2020)

  8. #37
    Points: 29,932, Level: 42
    Level completed: 21%, Points required for next Level: 1,118
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Social25000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Retirednsmilin308's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    5833
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    6,568
    Points
    29,932
    Level
    42
    Thanks Given
    7,875
    Thanked 5,826x in 3,490 Posts
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    When I took philosophy everyone failed the first test. So I took some time to figure it out and got As on the rest of the tests while most were still failing. But I killed the curve which I though was funny.
    @Peter1469...How did you figure it out?
    Most of that class was so abstract, I found myself daydreaming about fishing with a cane pole on a slow moving bayou.

    Really had to fight the urge to give the limp fisted jerkoff sign at most of what I was listening to.
    Last edited by Retirednsmilin308; 01-20-2020 at 05:24 AM.
    When it is not allowed to be questioned, it is not science, it is PROPAGANDA

  9. #38
    Original Ranter
    Points: 859,122, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 90.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    496581
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    241,700
    Points
    859,122
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    153,223
    Thanked 147,591x in 94,420 Posts
    Mentioned
    2552 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Retirednsmilin308 View Post
    @Peter1469...How did you figure it out?
    Most of that class was so abstract, I found myself daydreaming about fishing with a cane pole on a slow moving bayou.

    Really had to fight the urge to give the limp fisted jerkoff sign at most of what I was listening to.
    Just that, I changed the way I approached the material.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Peter1469 For This Useful Post:

    stjames1_53 (01-20-2020)

  11. #39
    Points: 665,303, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 84.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433316
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    197,554
    Points
    665,303
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    31,984
    Thanked 80,905x in 54,720 Posts
    Mentioned
    2011 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Retirednsmilin308 View Post
    You know it is time to punch out when by the fourth post everything said is waay out of your league.

    It killed me to even get a D+ in Philosophy 101.

    Oops, that was me letting Rand summarize 10s of 1000s of pages of her writing.

    At a sales conference at Random House, preceding the publication of Atlas Shrugged, one of the book salesmen asked me whether I could present the essence of my philosophy while standing on one foot. I did as follows:

    1. Metaphysics: Objective Reality
    2. Epistemology: Reason
    3. Ethics: Self-interest
    4. Politics: Capitalism


    If you want this translated into simple language, it would read: 1. “Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed” or “Wishing won’t make it so.” 2. “You can’t eat your cake and have it, too.” 3. “Man is an end in himself.” 4. “Give me liberty or give me death.”

    If you held these concepts with total consistency, as the base of your convictions, you would have a full philosophical system to guide the course of your life. But to hold them with total consistency—to understand, to define, to prove and to apply them—requires volumes of thought. Which is why philosophy cannot be discussed while standing on one foot—nor while standing on two feet on both sides of every fence. This last is the predominant philosophical position today, particularly in the field of politics.

    My philosophy, Objectivism, holds that:

    1. Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.
    2. Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses) is man’s only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.
    3. Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.
    4. The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man’s rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.
    Here's a quick translation of Rand:

    1 Reality is facts....
    2 by which reason drives actions...
    3 in pursue of happiness...
    4 in the free market.


    Way I see it most philosophy is utterly simple but gets complicated because what philosophers write are internal dialogs with other philosophers.


    BTW, I never took a philosophy class.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Retirednsmilin308 (01-21-2020)

  13. #40
    Points: 665,303, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 84.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433316
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    197,554
    Points
    665,303
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    31,984
    Thanked 80,905x in 54,720 Posts
    Mentioned
    2011 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    While I'm here, here's what the Atlas Society thinks of Duggan's Mean Girl: "Mean Girl" – It Takes One to Know One.

    After hearing some buzz about Lisa Duggan’s Mean Girl, I decided to read it for myself to see what it was all about. Mean Girl: Ayn Rand and the Culture of Greed was published in May of 2019 by University of California Press as a part of the American Studies Now Initiative, an activist-oriented literary press whose main focus is the publication of a new series of “short, accessible books on Black Lives Matter, climate change, neoliberalism, BDS, the continuing urban crisis, indigenous politics, $#@! and trans issues, the crises in higher education and more. They are designed to provide timely, provocative analysis for teaching, for activism, and for engagement now.”

    The author, Lisa Duggan, self-identifies as a “$#@! feminist and leftist journalist, activist, and Professor of Social & Cultural Analysis at New York University.” Although I didn’t research Lisa Duggan until after I finished the book, it didn’t take long for me to grasp where the author is coming from ideologically, attempting to link Rand to “our contemporary culture of greed” (Duggan 12). This is not a particularly novel tactic – nor is this a book based on new scholarship, or an in-depth analysis of Rand’s work. Rather, it’s a retread of all the various hackneyed accusations and misrepresentations of Ayn Rand.

    Duggan herself concedes that her book “is not a biography of Rand. Nor is it social history based in original archival research, or literary criticism based in close readings of key texts. It belongs to American cultural studies, grasped through a global frame. It is focused on illuminating the ‘how did we get here’ questions” (Duggan xvii).

    ...Duggan continues the smear campaign throughout the pages of Mean Girl by presenting a vague, often malicious idea and then placing it next to Ayn Rand’s name. Duggan smugly assumes her audience will gullibly adopt her beliefs as their own.

    ...In the same vein, Duggan mashes libertarianism and Ayn Rand into one big mess, linking the two without clearly defining the political ideology. By not clearly outlining libertarianism, Duggan deliberately relies on her reader’s previous skewed definition of the word, which has real meaning as a political doctrine that values natural individual rights and freedom from the government.

    ...Without ever alluding to what libertarianism actually is, the author conflates the ideology with conservatism and classical liberalism. Perhaps Duggan fears were she to include legitimate definitions of prevalent terms and cited actual evidence, her readers would see through her nonsense. By keeping the reader confused, Duggan instead attempts to control the narrative. Because her words sound so similar to what Gen-zers and Millennials and Gen-zer’s hear constantly from media sources, they accept them as true.

    The irony of Duggan’s entire attempt to link Ayn Rand with a false connotation of libertarianism, is that Rand was rather critical of libertarians....

    Duggan sounds like some members here.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    The Sage of Main Street (01-22-2020)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts