The fault line concerning abortion

[Adelaide]

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[testsubjectalpha]

You either take responsibility for your own offspring, or you don't. worst case being you kill your offspring created from your own lions.

[carolina73]

It's not what point that I want to make. I'm just trying to direct traffic here. Your answer was:


You will have to explain to me how that equates to what you just said or didn't say, because you added 'or not' at the end of the sentence. I mean it's OK if the answer is not cut and dried, but if you want to say for instance that it's not about secularism or religious values but about women's variable attitudes, that's fine, but there are several millions of men who have a POV on the topic, so how their opinions break down in terms of secular or religious values still matter.

I don't believe that. Morals are free of religion even though religion was the main tool to teach morals to the masses in the past. I meet more and more people younger than me that have not been brought up on religion or only were forced to as kids but they still have morals. In Europe only about 10% of the people attend church but they have restrictions on abortions and the US does not.
Now, if you say "conception is life" then you are talking about the born again level style of religious in the vast majority of the cases (in my experience).

[pjohns]

Abortion, per se, affects no one but the woman, right? It is no one else's problem, and that's the way she has wanted it for decades. As it doesn't, per se, harm society, why should anyone care what she does. The father, of course, has little or no impact on such a decision. Therefore, there is absolutely no reason to care, one way or another. It's between the woman and God. Politicians use it for -- ta-da! -- politics.

I am very opposed to body parts factories.

This is a digression.

I thought that I indicated that I was emphatically not asking where one might stand on the matter of abortion per se. Rather, I was asking only if one's views are determined by whether one believes that this country should be ruled by secular values, or by the Judeo-Christian ethic.

Would you care to respond to the actual question, please?

[jigglepete]

I'm going to have to say, yes, but, at the same time I don't think the line is completely solid, in other words, listen to someone who states they are adamantly against abortion (due to religious beliefs) and after the statement, a "but" followed (usually) by a very short list of exceptions.

[Mister D]

We have at least 4 members adamantly opposed to abortion who do not identify as religious so I'm not sure the divide is all that clear. You could argue that their perspectives originated in religious ideas but that's true of almost all of our values secularized or not.

[Adelaide]

We have at least 4 members adamantly opposed to abortion who do not identify as religious so I'm not sure the divide is all that clear. You could argue that their perspectives originated in religious ideas but that's true of almost all of our values secularized or not.

It is also erroneous to state that the Judeo-Christian "thought" is more or less anti-abortion; it may be for most Christian denominations, but Judaism is a different story. The whole concept of "life" is different which fundamentally changes the argument, followed by the strong emphasis placed on the wellbeing of the mother (physical and mental).

[Mister D]

It is also erroneous to state that the Judeo-Christian "thought" is more or less anti-abortion; it may be for most Christian denominations, but Judaism is a different story. The whole concept of "life" is different which fundamentally changes the argument, followed by the strong emphasis placed on the wellbeing of the mother (physical and mental).

There is no such thing as Judeo-Christian thought anyway.

[donttread]

I seriously doubt that we will come to any consensus as concerning the ethical (or non-ethical) nature of abortion-on-demand--at least, anytime within this generation. So I will not approach the matter directly.

But I will ask this:

Do others agree that one's stance on the matter is really determined by whether one believes that our country should be entirely (and unapologetically) secular, or should be underpinned by Judeo-Christian thought?

To reiterate, I am not asking for a re-litigation of the matter. I am merely asking if others would agree that this is the fault line.

That's an excellent observation about abortion in general. It is not a logic based issue for most. I think for some their values are what matters without thought as to where national values come from.

[Dr. Who]

That's an excellent observation about abortion in general. It is not a logic based issue for most. I think for some their values are what matters without thought as to where national values come from.

It is interesting to note that abortion is not a matter of Christian scripture, but rather one of dogma - and dogma evolves. Thus abortion is not equally condemned by all Christian sects. The biblical view of the fetus (both old and new Testament) was one of property, rather than one of personhood. Logic really doesn't come into the equation. Either certain Christian sects have adopted the view that life begins at conception (which is not biblical) or they consider it a secular issue or an issue left to the conscious considerations of the mother. Thus the abortion question cannot actually be split on secular vs religious lines of thought, because neither side comes to the question from a consistent point of view.